English docs the A-G will consider II – the lease device
Posted by Trevor Mallard on September 28th, 2009
The second of the documents. It includes the rental agreement which is a device to lease the Karori house from the reorganised trust to Ministerial Services. Ministerial Services appears to have paid for a rental appraisal. Again not a knock out blow – but a picture is developing. And the real question “Why did Bill do it?” – is still very hard to answer.
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Mr Mallard as I understand it, the acting AG will be considering the issue as Ms Provost does not start for another week.
The position that Labour is taking is that all the evidence points to Mr English receiving more than his entitlement. Thus the allegation from you that Mr English is a “money laundering hypocrite”, and claims that Mr English filled in forms incorrectly.
In the earlier post you mentioned that the OAG will only consider the legal issue rather than the ethical one. Well which is it? Does Labour accept that Mr English is legally entitled to it? Why make a song and dance about putting the case up to the AG if your line of attack is that it comes down to an ethical question rather than a legal one?
It seems to me quite clear that Labour knows that Mr English is entitled to the allowance but is trying to muddy the waters with “ethical” questions when the evidence doesn’t stack up. It also explains why Labour is continuing to push the issue hard when the matter is already before the Auditor General, so as to either paint the Auditor General as biased after the fact (as Labour has done in the past) or to dismiss the legal issue as secondary.
Tim – Do you honestly believe English’s primary place of residence is Dipton? Do you honestly believe it is appropriate for the person who is leading fiscal restraint in NZ to be asking for extra cleaning money? Do you honestly think he has no interest in the Trust? If so you are being churlish and I think it’s time you gave up this obsessive posting on these English threads – this ‘it’s legal so it’s okay’ line has worn threadbare.
So Tim , like Bill would like the issue to ‘go away’ while AG looks into it. Plus I understand the AG has NOT decided to do a full investigation but will await the results of the preliminary report.
As for push hard, thats what oppositions do . Remember Bill English himself was there a year ago and would have done much the same.
One thing about the lease to the ‘trust’ why is the address for service at the ‘17th floor Bowen House’.
Funny place for a trust to be based in the parliament complex.
Or is there an electorate office there for you know who
So Tim you tell me if you think English has acted properly ethically and in a way which enhances his credibility as Finance Minister at all times.
And I certainly don’t accept that English has been primarily resident in Dipton since at least the mid 1990s.
Mr Mallard I will wait until the Auditor General’s report comes out before I form an opinion on the legality of Mr English’s accommodation entitlement. I don’t have the facts at hand to be able to form a view. I don’t doubt you’ve got one set of facts Mr Mallard but I suspect they aren’t the complete set.
On the issue of the ethics of Mr English claiming an accommodation allowance, I think Mr Mallard your party is on a very slippery slope indeed. I personally think the public would no better regard as ethical a politician renting out their property, pocketing the cash, and living in a ministerial home, as they would Mr English’s situation. Despite the attempts to dance on the head of a pin over distinctions between Mr English and other politicians, Mr Mallard, as you say ethics are not about strict niceties. It’s what the public would view as appropriate.
If you really want Mr English to open up his trust and property arrangements I think it’s only fair for Labour MPs to do likewise.
Tim before Bill English was selected as national candidate for Wallace ( the original rural Southland seat) he was Chairman of the Lyall Bay branch of the National party.
Where abouts in Southland is Lyall Bay Tim ?
ghost, I don’t see how that is relevant. By the same measure, where abouts in Mt Roskill is Thorndon? How about Clevedon, is that in Mt Roskill as well?
It’s public record that Mr English worked in Wellington before returning to Wallace to farm, when he stood as an MP. People move. Have you always lived in the same town? I haven’t and nor has Mr Mallard, who previously lived in Hamilton. Mr Cunliffe lived in Wellington before being an MP too. Do you have a point?
News at 12:00 Monday. Bill English’s spokesman says Bill English has not claimed any payments since July???!!!
You mean the spokesman for the Trust !!.
Bill has no legal connection… we are told.
Doesnt tally with the ‘automatic payments’ in the lease details. Perhaps another round of OIA requests to get to who is asking to stop the payments
Yes as an after-thought it did seem odd that the “legally entited Trust” had received no money rather than Bill. Anyway if Bill or the Trust had not been receiving the money wouldn’t that have an effect on Labour Research? Has Bill been playing games, and has the nature of the Answers been misleading?
Tim @ 9.17 & 10.04 how about answering the questions you have been asked on this site and the standard about your view of English’s moral position and whether he has lost the credibility a Finance Minister needs. English is the issue and you doing silly comparisons doesn’t fool anyone.and look forward to John Key doing it with me.
And I’m happy to open up all trust arrangements I am involved with – and look forward to John Key doing it with me.
On the issue of the trust, it is common for the trustees (i.e. administrators of the trust) not to be beneficiaries. If the Endeavour trust is similar to my family trust, the children are likely the beneficiaries and the parents the trustees. The trustees perform the administrative tasks involved with running the trust without legally having a financial interest in the trust. So nothing wrong there in my opinion.
However, I still think he’s been rorting the system by claiming his primary residence is Dipton.
Try telling the IRD that your old house in NZ is not evidence of a permanent establishment if you go overseas for some years. You don’t6 have to live there for them to declare that you are subject to NZ tax on your worldwide income.