Red Alert

It’s Christmas Eve

Posted by on December 24th, 2012

And, as is becoming traditional here is the one true Christmas anthem, to wish everyone a peaceful and restful festive season. Its been a big year in political terms, and I am pretty sure I am not the only one looking forward to a break. Its also a time to think of those for whom 2012 has not been much fun- those without work and/or struggling to make ends meet. Those in war zones around the world and those for whom this season will provide no reason to celebrate. Take some time out to count your blessings and re-commit to making the world a fairer and better place.

In terms of Red Alert, watch out in the new year for a re-launch with a different approach and way of doing things. Exciting times ahead.


47 Responses to “It’s Christmas Eve”

  1. Cactus Kate says:

    http://asianinvasion2006.blogspot.com/2011/12/pricks-for-2011-blog-awards.html?m=1

    RA won blog of the year off me last year. Not this year. Try harder next year.

  2. bbfloyd says:

    I will be interested in seeing how things shape up on red alert next year…. This is just about the only blog site in nz that does a good job of keeping real issues to the fore, and encourages mature debate, accommodates the myriad ideas people contribute, and keeps the worst of the trolling that characterises the bulk of the other blog sites off these pages…

    And when all said and done… If prickly pear katey don’t like it, then that’s got to be a good thing…We already have whaleoil, kiwiblog, pundit, and the standard, to cater for the more reactionary among us…

    Politics doesn’t have to become the bloodsport so favored by the reactionary right…I thank Red Alert for keeping it real when others in positions to make positive contributions have fallen into old traps, and made themselves pointless…

    Have a nice, relaxing break guys, and girls, ’cause it’s gonna get ugly for us in the real world next year, and the fight to cover the theft going on by the raiding party is going to get even nastier….

  3. GeoffCartwright says:

    Well put bbfloyd.
    Robust and informative debate is very positive esp on the left but time for some reflection I think.
    Time for the LP to ramp up the changes and the new direction of the party. Time also for a unified team on the left to chip away at the Tory imbedded machine.
    Its the left blo ks time, it the people time , we have suffered enough and it can only get worse.
    Time to see off the Tories, unleash the front bench and let the campaign start now.
    Time to reconnect to the old and new supporters, the voters and potential voters.
    Time for cunliffe to be brought back under sharers watch and let’s get going…the people are starving.

  4. bbfloyd says:

    “Time for the LP to ramp up the changes and the new direction of the party”….

    My instincts tell me that your statement carries more than a hint of prescience….

    The overhaul of the last 12 months puts labour in a good position to take the fight up a few notches…

  5. phillip ure says:

    are you going to stop censoring any questioning comments..?

    ..that would be a good start..eh..?

    ..phil..

  6. phillip ure says:

    “.. unleash the front bench..”

    have they been holding back up until now..?

    ..does that explain it..?

    ..phil..

  7. GeoffCartwight says:

    Oh labour and co have the depth and breadth just need a few minor members whispering in the MPs ears all the time “you are not a god” to remind them that they are for and by the people.
    Time for a reality check, walk amongst the suffering people and start to engage outside the beltway, the neo Chardonnay set, the guildex elite.
    Labour after all, at it’s base, is a people party inc.
    Time to organise down to LEC and campaign group level now.
    I wanna see my local mp out in the electorate more, connecting Robertson style not just swan in eight week before an elelection with a small cadre using outmoded election techniques.
    The Tories are embedded, connected and use more modern techniques.
    Time to kick in team labour inc cunliffe now….less Shearer say and more labour says.
    Time to unleash the new hands of labour, Team Labour to the front and see off the raiders…assets and profit takers.

  8. GeoffCartwright says:

    @ well don’t hold back there Phillip ure…join the debate the discourse…what’s your point apart from sarky snarkiness. I don’t see any apart from bagging.
    Have you seen the front beach of labour in action?
    Have you heard grant Robertson speak or Ardern et co?
    Well Philip…welcome to the open platform of free speech…just be polite.

  9. phillip ure says:

    my point is that both this blog and the standard are notorious for having eyewatering levels of censorship..

    ..and i wd submit that fortress-mentality/fists stuffed in ears to dissenting dialogue.. is an indicator of all that is currently wrong with labour..

    ..i did an end of year report card on labour..and described them as a sub-plot in ‘lost..

    ..and as a labour party still with the right wing of it with a death-grip on the party..

    ..also that you can barely slip a playing card between key national/shearer labour..

    ..and that tho’ likely a ‘nice bloke’..shearer is the wrong man at the wrong time..

    “..Have you seen the front beach of labour in action?..”

    well..seeing as i do a commentary on every questiontime at parliament..and have done for some years now..yes..yes..i have seen the front bench in (in)action…

    ..and in that report card i said i couldn’t single out any frontbencher in labour who i could say of them..’they did a good job this year’..

    ..and you cite robertson and ardern..as your exemplars..?

    ..i’m sorry..once again..likely nice people..but i didn’t see them shine..

    ..and ‘snarky’..?

    ..yep..!..i am real snarky at labour..

    ..’cos’..y’see..i am one of those poorest you turned your backs on for nine long years..(a sole-parent..one of those ‘undeserving’ families..eh..?..)

    ..clark/ministers from that govt should be regularly donning sackcloth and ashes and making bloody public penance..

    ..yeah..that made quite a few of us former labour voters quite snarky..and even bordering on ‘impolite’..

    ..because you know very well that the clark govts refusal to repair the damage done by shipley..

    ..has just empowered/enabled these tory bastards to kick the crap out of us even more..

    ..and you know what..?..i really don’t think that penny has dropped yet for most of you..

    ..your solution to the 270,00 kids in poverty at the last election..

    ..was to promise to include those ‘undeserving’ families into that tax credit..by..get this..2018..(!)

    ..(oh..!..how we wept in gratitude at that promise/prospect..giddy at the thought of that extra ten dollars a week..(and every year too..!..)

    ..and you still wonder why all those members of the underclass didn’t flock to vote for you..?..really..?

    (and funny story..!..yr josie pagani apologised to the people of nz for the wild genorosity labour was promising..

    ..seriously..!..if we didn’t laugh..get snarky..

    ..we’d weep..eh..?

    phillip ure

  10. phillip ure says:

    what you need to do to revive/restore labour is to return to your roots..

    ..and to end poverty with one fell swoop..

    ..and paying for that with a combination of tobin tax..and a more progressive tax system..

    ..and a capital gains tax..

    ..and much higher taxes on alcohol..

    ..for starters..

    ..currently you just seem to be standing around waiting for the electorate to get so disgusted with key/the tories they turn to you in desperation..

    ..hardly a plan to hold yr head high over..is it..?

    ..phillip ure..

  11. GeoffCartwright says:

    Well then help change the system to a fairer one.
    What policy and how…solution my man provide a solution costed reasonable or at least something.
    I’ve been unemployed four time not exactly pleasant…we all have stories.
    What’s your solution then…more trickle down, more money in the form of a assistance or do we change things completely soas we all can eat at the same table.
    Well my man what will it be…reasonable conversation or snarkiness.
    Yes IMHO labour must and is changing to provide meaningful solution s to these and your situation.
    Is it fair no way, why should you go without because of your life situation..
    Well what do you propose labour does then?
    You have an education and a blog presence use it…

  12. phillip ure says:

    “..You have an education and a blog presence use it…..”

    i do..the searchengine has over 65,000 hand-picked entries..

    ..and is updated every day..

    ..and i tried arguing here before..

    ..was instantly banned..

    ..i am gratified to see these comments not going into automatic moderation..

    ..and that sort of a policy must continue if you want red alert to become a force for change..
    ..and while i do not think that..say the vile racism that farrar is so unperturbed about is a good thing..

    ..but vigorous/dissenting political debate..that can get fiery..must be allowed..

    ..these blogs are the bastard children of the old-style public political meetings..after all..

    ..and they were known for more snarkiness that you can wave a stick at..

    ..and were definitely not ‘polite’..

    ..and you know what is really not ‘polite’..?

    ..the stinking/grinding/ongoing miseries of poverty..

    ..and until now..the refusal of both the tories and labour to take the necessary/do-able steps to just end this..

    ..has many of us tearing our hair out..

    ..when will you ‘get it’..?

    phillip ure..

  13. GeoffCartwright says:

    If I may there Phillip, a hell of a lot of the labour people and mps were and are working people or poor.
    They know what it’s like to be discriminated against by situation and by poverty.
    The path of a labourite is a embattled thankless one not like the Tories who rub gilded cloth in their social gatherings.
    Solo they know but well different methodology to solve your problem some ingrained some old hat some just not working.
    Look to the young crop and a few reborn oldster to bring it on with sharers show of a new direction.
    It promises much now better live up to it as we the people are starving….apart from a few elitist nobs keyites.

  14. phillip ure says:

    so..geoff..you predict change in labour..i hope you are correct..

    ..(but i hafta say..i don’t really see shearer as the harbinger of such change..do you..?..)

    ..and do you see no need for any form of mea culpa from the current actors who were amongst those who just ignored the poorest for those nine long years..?

    ..the current labour party walks/talks and quacks like the same neo-lib model that participated so enthusiastically in ‘the big mistake’..

    ..and those same people/actors are the ones who still control the party..

    ..and shearer is their ‘man’..

    ..here’s a thought/idea for all those labour people/mp’s..

    ..how about if they all just turn 180%..to be looking outward..

    ..then focus..and look hard and long at what is wrong with nz..

    ..and then come up with coherent/practical policies to put all that right..

    ..and no..just more of the same tweedle-dum/tweedle-dee with national is no answer..

    ..’cos y’know what..?

    ..most of us out here couldn’t give a flying f*ck about he internicine-bloodbaths/battles that seem such a large part of life as a labourite..

    ..we just want a labour party that will work with those parties further to its’ left..

    ..to achieve the much-needed real change..

    ..(and of course..do always heed that furry freak brothers maxim for life:

    ..”remember children..as you smash the state..to always keep a smile on yr face..and a song on yr lips!’..)

    phillip ure..

  15. phillip ure says:

    (ahem..!..)..or was that ‘a smile on yr lips..and a song in yr heart’..?

    ..(i think i prefer the latter..)

    phillip ure..

  16. bbfloyd says:

    So… we have a new, and even morre incoherent tory troll plaguing the internet…Young philly makes many good points, as long as we assume that we live on planet bizarro….

    That level of hatred, and vitriol will only poison yourself young philly….

    I can see that Geoff has already tried to appeal to your reason.. I applaud that, even if it is pointless in your case(one needs to be able to apply reason to be able to debate sensibly)…

    I would only remind those that hang on to such self destructive methods of communication, that this is a “grown up” blog site, not a vehicle for damaged individuals to use as a target to sharpen their obsessions…

    Take Geoff’s advice youngster… get involved in the debate like a real grownup, and you may be surprised at how non existent the personal backlash is…

    Whether you are capable of doing that, or not, I’m sure that the majority of contributors here will be applauding your banning if you don’t grow up, and start being sensible…

    Even cameron slater wouldn’t be as incoherent(and that IS saying something)..

    btw… censuring your comments? I can see why they were, if the above is an example of what you are saying… I can only assume this last attempt to hijack the thread has been left on to show just how obsessive, and outright lunatic, some of the tories have gotten….

  17. phillip ure says:

    what didn’t you understand..there..?..bb..?

    (y’know..!..put the condescending-riff to one side..eh..?)

    ..what facts did i state (either historical or current)that are incorrect..?

    ..(and isn’t your call for a ban so a marker of that problem i indicated iniially..?..a horror from many in labour at any questioning of the ideological-lock-step..?.)

    ..(and heh..!..a first..!..being called a ‘tory’..and a ‘youngster’..heh..!..)

    ..mate..next to me..you are ideologically somewhere around atilla the hun..

    (i am a vegan/animal-rights/tax the banksters ’till they bleed kinda guy..eh..?)

    ..whereas i think you are old-school labour..still defending the neo-lib/rand-ite teachings of ‘the great mistake’..eh..?

    prove me wrong..

    ..tell us what your formula is for ending our child poverty problem..?

    ..or do you not see a problem..?

    ..that is a serious question..

    ..if you could move past just attacking me as a messanger/ouestioner..

    ..i really would appreciate your answer to that quite straightforward question..

    ..what policies/changes would you institute to end child poverty..?

    phillip ure..

  18. Jack Ramaka says:

    Who is this Phillip Ure the mind is all over the show.

    He needs to say things with less words to be effective, primary school dribble.

  19. SPC says:

    It’s a little surprising that supposedly left wing people would use the written presentation format of a poster to dismiss the message contained in them. What next, the race or accent to dismiss the point expressed at an old fashioned meeting?

    Labour has bought into the global free trade market and operated to its rules (such as in monetary policy and excluding finance from GST, and also enabling foreigners to bid up domestic property values). After all it did give away tariffs on imports for nothing while trade partners still impose them on agriculture. It was NZF and Greens who pushed Labour into increasing the minimum wage. It is Labour that is proposing compulsory private super (Kiwi Saver) to replace tax paid super – even though it knows that the Australian way results in more old age poverty (a means tested lower level for those with insufficient private super savings) there than we have.

    It was Labour that allowed the rise in property values that meant more lower inocme workers unable to afford owning their own home – though kudos for now having a real Labour Party response (as best as there can be with our rising debt level and the party’s orthodox monetary policy constraints).

  20. Darien Fenton says:

    @SPC : who says we are pushing for Kiwisaver to replace compulsory funded super? Source please. And Labour didnt need pushing to put the minimum wage up. And won’t in the future. Don’t get me started on NZ First and minimum wage. They blocked it for contractors.
    @bbfloyd : thank you for your contributions. They are appreciated.

  21. SPC says:

    Darien – is Labour pushing for compulsory Kiwi Saver or not? If so, can anyone explain how this makes tax paid super more affordable? An increase to age 67 does not do that.

    And if it is to be 4% from employee and 8% from employer – is this not at a level to replace rather than supplement tax paid super? The only thing that would do is enable the transformation of tax paid super into a means tested one (reserved for those with insufficient savings). Just as with all payments to the few (such as benefits) this will result in a lower rate being paid – so that as in Oz there are the aged in poverty.

    In 2005, NZF and Greens proposed an increase in MW from $9 to $12 over 3 years. What was Labour’s policy in 2005? So NZ First had some wriggle room on coverage – would the rate have been increased by that amount by 2008, if it was not their policy?

  22. @SPC yes we are proposing compulsory super to improve savings not to substitute it for universal super. I have no idea about Greens and NZ First policy. I do know that under Labour the minimum wage went from $7.00 an hour to $12 for adults and from $4.20 to $12 for under 20s. I ado know that Labour didn’t need pushing on minimum wage. Credit to Sue Bradford for her bill to remove youth wages for 16 and 17 year olds but if Labour hadnt voted for it, then it would have been history. how about having a go at the Nats and Peter Dunne who recently voted down David Clark’s $15 minimum wage bill?

  23. phillip ure says:

    d.fenton said:

    “..I have no idea about Greens and NZ First policy..”

    really..?

    ..is this common amongst your contemporaries..?

    ..aren’t you supposed to be planning a coalition with one or both of them in ’14..?

    ..shouldn’t you be..y’know..!..consulting to work out common-ground now..?

    ..rather than after any election/coalition-formation..?

    ..and ms fenton..

    ..could you please have a go at that question i asked earlier that nobody seems able/inclined to answer..

    “….what policies/changes would you institute to end child poverty..?..”

    thank you..

    ..phillip ure..

  24. Dave says:

    …..Phil Ure…..what …the…..hell…are you …..on………….about?
    ……Try to …..be more succinct, …otherwise …..it seems you ……need a …….good ……dose …..of …..National …..standards in written literacy. Irritating isn’t it?

  25. phillip ure says:

    not really..i have been writing this way for a long time/years..

    ..it is basically written to be spoken out loud..

    ..that is the rhythm it is written to..

    ..ever looked at the punctuation-dictates from a century ago..?

    ..(capital letters/commas/semi-colons/mr/mrs/miss now are the extravagant swirls of yesteryear..frivolous nonsense all of them..)

    ..and how could that last question be any easier/simpler/clearer..?..

    ..“….what policies/changes would you institute to end child poverty..?..”

    ..and i have to say this failure to even answer the question..despite asking three times..and for labour people to just serially abuse me/the messanger..

    ..just really confirms what labour plans to do to end poverty..

    ..dosn’t it ‘dave’..?

    ..namely..not much at all..

    ..are you like key with that one there..dave…?

    ..you just don’t care about them..?

    “…Phil Ure…..what …the…..hell…are you …..on..”

    ..pot..usually..how about you..?..hic..!..(?)..

    ..phillip ure

  26. phillip ure says:

    and if i could just amend that poverty question to add:

    ..”..and how would you pay for it..?..”

    ..thank you..

    ..phillip ure..

  27. bbfloyd says:

    A word to the wise… Young philly urethra hasn’t got the slightest interest in actually having a sensible discussion….

    Why, oh why, are people trying to have one with him? You must realise you are dealing with a damaged psyche here…. Every attempt to talk sense to him simply validates his delusions of grandeur… He knows he’s not making sense, that’s deliberate…

    It’s been dubbed “Whaleoil syndrome”… Best just to leave him to wallow in his tory fantasy world.. to engage with these kinds of sick minds is pointless, and ultimately self defeating…

    There really are much more useful things to do…And this blog has far too much going for it to be degraded with these types of halfwit being encouraged to play their silly little games….

    Looking forward to not seeing infections like this on here next year…..although it does amuse me to flatten silly tories, it doesn’t progress the understanding of issues by even the slightest amount….

    Hope everyones new year is the start of better times ahead..

  28. phillip ure says:

    whoar..!..get thee to kiwiblog..!..eh..?..bb..?

    ..there you will find many more just like you..

    ..and you do seem to have the lingo down pat..

    ..(and this might be of interest to you..)

    “..I had, you see broken two of the rules of politics.

    The first might be considered the “shoot the messenger” rule…

    When someone issues an angry rebuke – observers associate that person with anger.

    When accusing someone else of being pathetic -

    - whatever the merit of my case -

    - I mainly succeeded in making myself appear pathetic..”

    ..food for thought there..eh bb..?

    ..when wishing for ‘better times ahead’..?

    ..critic..heal thyself..eh..?

    (and it really is funny that you call me a ‘tory’..eh..?

    ..as on any ideological spectrum..you would be far more right than i am..

    (i’d be workers co-op-ing and nationalising.and taxing multi-nationals/banksters all over the place..a total re-prioritising)

    ..so calling me a tory is a case of one finger pointing forwards..

    ..and three pointing back..eh..?..)

    ..remember..smile..song..

    phillip ure..

  29. Dave says:

    Thanks for that Phil, as usual you add nothing to the debate. How about you stop interrupting the adults while they’re talking?
    “Caring” about poverty and having the tools to deal with it, are quite separate problems. I just don’t wear my concern as a badge in a transparent and lame attempt to appear caring, whilst doing absolutely nothing about it, like yourself. Words without action are just noise, and you seem to make a great deal of it. BTW this post is “written” to be shouted :)

  30. bbfloyd says:

    @dave..”How about you stop interrupting the adults while they’re talking?”… I was wondering if we had a case of “too early from the nest” from that quarter…

    Had similar experience when my son was a teenager too….He got over it pretty quickly though… thankfully, he never got to the “Pinky and the brain” stage…(which one is the little philly?.. Pinky,or the brain?, or both, depending on his cycles)

  31. phillip ure says:

    well..y’see..dave..me ‘caring’ about 270,000 nz children living in poverty..

    ..and being in the country that was the crucible of the welfare state..

    ..that has deteriorated to such an extent..the handiwork of both national and labour..that other oecd countries send scientists here to study the poverty-related third world diseases that only we have..(makes ya proud to be a kee-wee..eh..?..)

    ..me caring about this ulcer/obscenity is one thing..

    ..the party likely to be a coalition member of the next govt in nz ‘caring’ about this..having plans to fix this.. is a different matter entirely..

    ..as the next govt will have the tools to hand to end poverty..

    ..i don’t..

    ..it is as simple as that..

    ..why do you seem to have difficulty comprehending that glaring difference..?

    ..and how is that not a valid question to ask a party who’se solution last time out/election was to give some of the poorest a drip-feed of ten dollars a week..just to bring them..after six years..into some form of equality with the currently working poor..?

    ..all of which really amounted to a drip from a small squirt of s.f.a…eh..?

    ..and i am sure you won’t want to hear it..but you and your companion bb are identical to the worst of the kiwiblog/tory trolls..

    ..in that they never even ever attempt to ask/answer any question being asked/issue debated..

    ..all they do is summon up all their (albeit limited) powers to launch a personal/ad hom attack on the questioner/dissenter..

    ..going on yr offerings in this thread..

    ..how are you any different..?

    (..not ‘shouted’..that comment..said in measured tones..)

    ..phillip ure..

  32. bbfloyd says:

    That reminds me… What would be a nice thing to know is that the next government(the one that will actually govern, rather than playact at it while helping themselves to the piggy bank)will announce a return to a rebuilding of proper facilities for the mentally disturbed….

    As well as committing to a process that enables these unfortunate people to get help long before they come into the orbit of the justice system..

    That would be a gift that would keep on giving, earn the gratitude of thousands of families, and save many, many lives from becoming pointless…..

    Throwing them out into the same communities that they failed to integrate with in the first place is having no more effect than filling our prisons with the victims of society….

    No-one with an ounce of reason, and compassion can argue that the current paradigm is working, for the wider communities, or the sufferers themselves…

    Now that would be a christmas present for the generations…

  33. SPC says:

    Darien, I am simply raising the issue of consequences. Those in National who support compulsory Kiwi Saver do so because they see it as replacing tax paid super. This for all except those without sufficient savings – these getting a means tested support. This will be treated as a welfare payment that has to be afforded and thus be set at a lower level accordingly. This will lead to a rise in numbers of those in old aged in poverty, as now occurs in other countries with this policy.

    Labour may introduce complusory Kiwi Saver without this intent but if National then makes the adjustment (as a way to justify offering tax cuts – undermine the future affordability fo tax paid super further and further), would Labour guarantee it would commit to proposing re-raising taxes to afford tax paid super at current payment rates? In the absence of such a promise (not really binding in the future), you are simply preparing the way for the consequences. This is strategic naivety.

    Far, far better to propose that compulsory saving occurs – but half the money is placed into the Cullen Fund – so tax paid super affordability is planned for. This will make tampering with tax paid super harder for National.

    Why not 4% from employee and 4-8% from the employer – with half going into the Cullen Fund? It was always a mistake trying to rely on the continued availability of budget surpluses placed into the Cullen Fund for tax paid super to be viable. The inevitable loss of the surpluses raises the very issue of tax paid super affordability that makes compulsory Kiw Saver attractive to those who want to use it to replace tax paid super.

  34. Matt says:

    Honestly, what a neo-liberal rant. Both the Cullen Fund and KiwiSaver are neo-liberal constructs, so stop accusing people of being “supposedly left-wing” because you don’t fit that narrative either. The irony is that you don’t get it. Using public funds to speculate in financial assets whilst denying the public of fiscal means to actually improve their life?

    Believing in ad hoc budget outcomes as having any relevance to the affordability of NZ Super is laughable. There is none, nor ever will be.

  35. SPC says:

    Matt, when you are able to convince the Labour Party (let alone the wider voting public) that the government budget has no meaning to affording government spending, such as tax paid super or benefits, your point will have meaning. Until then, it does not.

    The political process continues to operate on the basis that it does matter. And while this is the case compulsory Kiwi Saver plays into the hands of the Tories. They will use it to replace universal tax paid super. When that happens, Labour will be left defending the generosity of the means tested super (to those without adequate private savings). They will be as unsuccessful in this as they were in defending benefit levels to prevent child poverty.

    The irony is that your opposition to the Cullen Fund is virtually word for word that of Bill English, who has always opposed it. Apparently he English believes that puting savings away results in lower growth and higher growth would occur if people spent more instead. Of course bidding up house and land prices or buying up assets off the government or spending on imports does nothing to create growth – and it certainly leaves the government without the savings required to smooth the super cost of the aging baby boomers.

    PS Savings placed long term into investments don’t really count as speculation.

  36. phillip ure says:

    spc said:..”..They will be as unsuccessful in this as they were in defending benefit levels to prevent child poverty. ..”

    ..that is a very charitable view of labour..as their/any ‘defence’ was vichy in nature/form..at best..

    ..and then for nine long years in power..labour just kept the govts’ boot on the throats’ of the poorest..(all the while shedding crocodile-tears for those ‘struggling’ on ‘only $75,000′..when selling/spinning that working for (some) families..that was quite the moment for those ignored poor watching from the sidelines..those voiceless/powerless poor under labour..(their supposed champion..the betrayal was deep and toxic..be in no doubt of that..eh..?..

    ..and it was beyond irony..)

    ..so..who else to blame – if not them/labour – for the 270,000 children living in poverty/rise in/return of 3rd world diseases..?

    ..’defence’..indeed..!

    ..which brings us to now..and those you betrayed now trust you as much as they trust the tories..(c.f..yr poll ratings)

    ..and they do not see you helping them in any real way..should you get back into power..

    ..so see no need/imperative to trust labour with their vote..

    ..(and what have you done to disabuse them of those certainties..?..

    ..as far as i can see..nothing..

    ..and this is one of your major problems as a political party..

    ..you are not trusted..

    ..by those who are/should be your core-vote..)..

    phillip ure..

  37. bbfloyd says:

    I’m assuming the moderators are on holiday.. That’s the only reason i can see for letting young urethra carry on working out his narcissistic/megalomanic fantasies at the expense of intelligent discussion..

    This could have been a good platfom for an interesting discussion,(indeed, a couple of commenters tried to have one) but it is looking more like most of the comments sections on the standard, thanks to one idiot insisting on forcing his mental health issues down everyones throats….

    Looking forward to next years “new broom”. Maybe then, we can get back to participating in what has been generally, a very effective tool for communication between mp’s, and those that care about their country, and despair of the reactionary, short sighted ego tripping that passes for politics in our “fourth estate”, as well as the lunacy that informs current government policy…(oh, I see.. Young urethra is actually a cabinet minister! now THAT makes sense!)

  38. phillip ure says:

    so..despite fate giving me the moniker ‘phillip ure’..

    ..b.b. has divined that my ‘real’ i.d. is as a young tory cabinet minister..?

    ..that makes sense..!

    ..bb..mate..!..w.t.f. are u smokin’..?

    ..and could you plse introduce me to your dealer..?..got his/her celly-number..?

    ..maybe after imbibing some of that powerful product….

    ..maybe then i will be able to see you as a labour person who cares for all..

    ..and not just a reactionary lusting for power..?..eh..?

    ..here’s hoping..!

    ..eh.?

    ..meanwhile..toke on you crazy diamond..eh..?

    ..i lean forward in both expectation..and anticipation..

    ..of yr next revelation..

    ..(maybe i ‘faked’ the moon-landing..?..just wondering..!..)

    phillip ure.

  39. bbfloyd says:

    So.. we go into 2013 armed now with irrefutable knowledge that the best argument the tories can put up to defend their “straw bosses” behaviour, and the blatant theft of our childrens future, is to resort first, and foremost, to nasty, uninformed, personal abuse…

    At best, a misguided parady of what should be intelligent debate… At worst, purely self serving, vicious bullying attempts at intimidation of any who would expose the truth of their utter disloyalty to the people of New Zealand…..

    Indeed, we are treated to an unending stream of vitriol from utterly ego driven, unbalanced, narrow minded individuals who consistantly fail to rebut, or even attempt to rebut, relevant critisism of what amounts to throwing away our right to self determination…

    WE have the right, at this point, to assume, with reason, that there is no will on the part of the raiding party, or it’s half trained, feral, pack of dogs who have been unleashed on fair minded kiwis simply to distract, and unsettle for as long as they can… thus creating the space required to steal our future in relative peace…

    As we now know… The fourth estate has been utterly corrupted with hand picked lap dogs inhabiting the political news bureaus of nearly every daily newspaper, and EVERY tv station (triangle excepted), so we have no choice but to continue the fight to expose this craven, boot licking excuse for a government ourselves…

    The rather outlandish, and quite frankly, childish attempts by the rather damaged, and limited individuals to distract from the issues with obnoxious personality politics does no more than prove to fair minded people that we can’t afford to ease off for a second…

    The tories are showing just how nervous they are by refusing to engage on a cerebral level…They show that they have no intellectual, or moral authority to continue to hollow out our hard won social/economic gains..

    Thank you young filly urethra… Your antics remind us all just who the real enemies of our society are…..

  40. Grant Hay says:

    @ Geoff & bbfloyd & Dave…

    Phil Ure is obviously strong enough not to require my support but I’m going to pitch in and provide it anyway.

    I am a very recent visitor to this and other political blogs and I must say it has been a revelation…

    Pack mentality and frequent use of the ad hominem attack seems to be the typical modus operandi regardless of whether the Blog is nominally left or right.

    I thought the purpose of these forums was to improve “connectedness” and allow a free flowing and near instant conversation which anyone can join, not to allow an “in group” of like minded individuals to soap box and scratch each others backs while sneering and jeering at others who use a different mode of expression to say their piece. Sneering at Phil Ure because he:

    “need a …….good ……dose …..of …..National …..standards in written literacy. Irritating isn’t it?”(Dave)

    ((NATIONAL STANDARDS !!! REALLY??))

    Is scarcely a good method of improving communication between those inside the Labour camp and those of us who have long felt alienated from it.

    Shane Jones in the aftermath of the last election result stated that Labour needed to take a hard look at itself and ask itself why so few people thought it worth trusting Labour with their vote. If the Labour camp are simply going to turn on people like Phil and I who clearly identify as being “of the left” every time we try to say our piece, then I would suggest you are not going about the business of mending fences in a very efficient manner.

    Labour is supposed to be a movement of and for “common people”, including those who are not well educated, informed or even intelligent. By sneering at people like Phil who clearly is intelligent and motivated enough to mix it on a forum like this, you are also in effect making a back-handed swipe at all of those people who can barely read the back of a weet bix packet, but whose votes Labour would dearly love to capture. It smacks of an elitist “trust us we know what we’re doing” mentality.
    “How about you stop interrupting the adults while they’re talking?”; When it is perfectly obvious that Phil Ure is a an adult, solo-father,and fully functioning fellow citizen of this fair country, is scarcely the way to go about recognising (in an egalitarian spirit) that there are many people who do not express themselves in standard English or in “acceptable” Labour party lingo, who COULD make common cause with Labour if it wasn’t such a defensive, group-thinking, them and us mentality edifice.

    If you want to read an elegantly written analysis of this phenomenon, try going to KiwiPolitico and reading Pablo’s article on Political Fratricide (Nov 2012). Perfect.

  41. Dave says:

    Posted 2005 ” my name is phillip ure; i am an ex junkie (15 yrs clean of junk; still use pot), ex con (armed robbery of chemist shop whilst going through smack withdrawels(sic.)), vegan,dpb supported sole dad(thanks), environmental/animal rights activist/supporter. ”

    BBFloyd, I think accusing him of being a closet tory is going too far. Moreover he appears to be a sad case, a peripatetic amateur, and a self confessed and self loathing violent offender, thief and drug user.

  42. Grant Hay says:

    More sneering Dave?? I rather thought that Phil Ure was brave in his “warts and all” self description and in his sharing of it. The fact that he has made mistakes, admitted them and tried to move past them and is willing to share that fact publicly should lead to accolades rather than condemnation in my book. As for “peripatetic amateur”, I’m not quite sure what that is supposed to mean. Perhaps that as he is not a dedicated full time politico he has no right to express an opinion about the political state of play either within Labour or the nation generally? Take heart Phil! Peripatetic in its original usage has a noble meaning and I rather think that Aristotle would be on your side….

  43. bbfloyd says:

    @Dave.. lol… Whether he is an incurable tory, or not, isn’t my concern. he represents an excellent opportunity to highlight the kind of methods reactionary conservatives utilise in the drive to mislead society as to their real aims.. as such, he fell into that trap relatively easily…

    I would be reluctant to use his past against him as a method of discrediting his idiotic behavior… I believe that most of us would like to rehabilitate our lives, and our youthful mistakes, if given the chance…

    However… the personality type, as you describe, tend to be national(or act) supporters on balance, hence the convenient labelling…

    That he has real emotional/mental issues is beyond debate. Whether it would be called for to highlight past mistakes as an excuse to discount his utterences is debatable..

    Not that I think he has rehabilitated himself, just that I firmly believe in a persons right to respect until they demonstrate that they aren’t worthy of it..

    This is where I sit on young urethra… He has earned his derision, and to treat his utterences with anything short of contempt would be to validate the lies a large(and worrying) number of New Zealanders live by…

    BTW.. have you got a link for that post? I’m curious to have a read…

  44. phillip ure says:

    i still want that celly-number..there..bb..

    ..and whoar..!..

    ..are you sure you didn’t train at kiwiblog..?

    ..that was quite the little number you put on there..

    ..and you do share more than a few traits with the worst there..

    ..and of course..classic kiwiblog-tactic..

    ..spend six comments pouring personal abuse on a questioner..

    ..and then accuse said abused one of personal abuse against the original abuser..

    ..brilliant..!

    ..and rhymes on my sirname..eh..?..i haven’t heard that since the playground at primary school..

    ..which brings me to the question..how old are you there..bb..?

    ..are you a new very young member of young labour..?

    phillip ure..

  45. phillip ure says:

    tho’ i guess you could also be at that rhymes-on-sirnames is really really funny age..

    ..but coming from the other end of life..

    ..eh..?

    ..and still nobody willing to touch the third rail of child-poverty..eh..?

    ..and answer that simple question..that i originally came here to ask..

    ..namely:..what will you do to end child poverty..?

    ..(surely you can’t be scared of policy-theft..eh..?..)

    phillip ure..

  46. Grant Hay says:

    To the moderator: Can I ask why my post of 12.19 31/12 is not showing? If it has infringed in some way can I know in what manner it has “crossed the line”? (Sorry Grant. As you can see there’s not much MP action on this blog at the moment. I think your post was hooked up because of its length. Thank you for your comments – Darien

  47. bbfloyd says:

    Earth to damaged goods(filly) only a fool would give his contact details to a certifiable individual such as yourself…Your lack of self awareness is head shaking stuff..

    Time for you to start reading ALL the words written in these comments…(all of them) think (with your head) for at least five minuted on Everything written in those comments…

    And maybe… you might stop being such a pest..Doing impersonations of a four year old playing the “why” game wear thin extremely quickly, and whilst I could continue to produce endless permutations of the same theme whilst lampooning your silly games…. It doesn’t actually achieve a single positive… While becoming tedious…

    Bye bye little pony… hope your next space adventure is more productive than this one has been….

    {Sorry, not been checking this for a while and I see things have gone a bit off topic. For everyone’s sake comments are now closed on this post, Grant}