The Prime Minister got a taste of unpopularity in Dunedin today when he was roundly boo-ed by hundreds of students (and workers) protesting the VSM Bill which is an ideological attack on student organisations.
John Key was all smiles when he turned up to open the re-furbished University of Otago’s Robertson Library. But by the time he left he wasn’t smiling because he was obviously very unpopular.
He didn’t address the gathering despite having accepted an I love OUSA t-shirt and promising inside the gathering he would address the students. I guess that’s how this govt works. If it’s a photo oppp to make him look good he’ll do it. If it’s facing up to hard questions he won’t.
Hope our media covers what actually happened.
OUSA and the students thanked Labour and the Greens for doing what we could to stop this Bill becoming law. We did our best this week and will continue to do so.
The Hillside workers were also represented at the protest. John Key and his government are NOT popular in our town.
Thanks to Victor Billot from MUNZ and the Alliance for the video clip
As a student I resent you saying I will not have a voice after this bill is passed. To be honest I don’t have a voice now. The current administration don’t speak for me.
And neither do the past administrations, one of which burnt the New Zealand flag on ANZAC day. Absolutely disgusting. Of course you obviously support me being forced to belong to that organisation. VUWSA.
When I was forced to be a member of MUSA in the 80s they took my money balanced deleted troll warning. Trevor
I’d like to hear a reasoned argument on why VSM is so bad.
You just need to be a student at a student with VSM to see what happens. There is very little student life on campus, so life is much lonelier for students and the university is not attractive for those such as out of towners or foreign students. Sports and other facilities only exist if there is a wealthy alumni to provide them. University management can cut courses, faculties or change policies and there is no organised and resourced way students can have representation in these decisions. This is probably fine for some of those smug middle class locals who are supporting VSM and commenting here, as they see a university as purely a business relationship for their own betterment. But not fair for others who don;t have such family support and those who would like universities to be more vibrant places and provide a better university experience for a varied student population.
It’s like having a city where rates are voluntary. Would you really like to live there?
It’s like having a city where rates are voluntary. Would you really like to live there?
It’s quite different to that. If I live in a city I have to have water and sewerage and roads and footpaths, so I have to pay rates.
A student association is only a part of the campus and there other alternative ways of getting most if not all of what they provide.
Student unions are not local councils, they don’t have any safeguards for students that give millions of dollars to fund them, they are voted in by about 5% of students, and most people are aware they belong to a local council, most students aren’t aware they belong to a student union. This is why student unions are constantly in the news for fraud, extremist views around ANZAC day, or spending thousands of dollars on psychic hotlines.
If you want to be involved with a students association after VSM passes, fair enough, tick the box that says “yes” if you don’t want to be involved, fine, tick the box that says “no”.
By the logic of saying there is some inherent value to the association therefore it should never be made voluntary, then really one would still be advocating for the PSA, PPTA, and EPMU to be made compulsory as well.
No one else is compelled to join a union, why should students be treated like second class citizens.
This is about trust. You either trust students to make the right choice, or you don’t.
Why are you so scared they will choose not to join such an essential, obviously valuable service? That is the only reason I can see for compulsion.
You don’t trust students.
You just need to be a student at a student with VSM to see what happens. There is very little student life on campus, so life is much lonelier for students and the university is not attractive for those such as out of towners or foreign students. Sports and other facilities only exist if there is a wealthy alumni to provide them
Absolutely true Hilary. My old Uni had a disasterous experiment with VSM. The community areas of student life collapsed, there was no soul left in the place. There were no places for students to socialise during the day.
In addition, there were no organisations to offer support to students who needed it. In the end the University had returned to CSM.
Sure Student Unions across the country have low voting levels, but they provide a incredible amount of benefit to the University community for a very low price to individual students. The same is true of local councils. But the far right aren’t keen on councils either, given what the design of the Super City has produced.
It is illogical to force anyone to join any form of union. If the union is truly relevant it will survive pursuant to freedom of choice. FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!!!!
Then students will join, especially if they also value the other aspects you have raised.
No compulsion required. Unless you think students are too stupid to see it….
“Student unions are not local councils, they don’t have any safeguards for students that give millions of dollars to fund them” – They have their own constitutions, the Reps get elected and students can vote on and suggest changes that can be made!
“most people are aware they belong to a local council, most students aren’t aware they belong to a student union.” – I would like to see a poll on exactly how many students are aware, methinks that most do know!
How can you miss the signage on the Students Association Buildings or logos on events? 
“This is why student unions are constantly in the news for fraud, extremist views around ANZAC day, or spending thousands of dollars on psychic hotlines.” Constantly? Look mate, Student Unions do a lot of great things for students and if there are any corrupties there then they should be lynched!
Corrupties are in all parts of society. 
That is about people not Students Associations 
@peter – No, it’s the VSM bill that took away the power of the student body to decide for itself if it wanted VSM
!
@Chris – so should we also have freedom of choice to not opt into having a council or central government?
@Peter – It’s more convenient for busy students to just be added.
@peter.. i wish you’d stop calling students stupid…
what is obvious is that after a very short period of time(as little as one or two months)the lack of funds available to student unions will, of necessity mean that the services, and advocacy that student unions provide will no longer be available… this will make it easy for the university management, and their paymasters to portray those unions as irrelevant and ineffectual… which, as per the agenda, allows the complete dismantling of any kind of protection from the profit driven philosophies this government seems obsessed with inflicting on what was an excellent education system that produced world class graduates..
some of whom were only there as a result of the brave, selfless actions of forward thinking leaders of the same union movement that gave us a society that we were once proud to call our own.
not for much longer it seems… if this bill is passed and is allowed to stay for any length of time, then we of the masses will only be able to look with envy at the children of the wealthy reaping the rewards from the sacrifices our granndparents, and great granparents…
they fought, and won a great battle with the same elites that are pillaging our wealth and future so that all new zealanders could be contributing members of society..(from each to his/her own skills, not how much money the family had)..
Not in practice. If the same number of people join voluntarily, then nothing changes, does it.
Uh-huh. Students are “too busy” to tick a box? Pull the other one. It might be “more convenient” if I joined you up to the ACT Party, although I’m guessing you’d object, and not on the basis of convenience.
And rightly so.
I’m not.
What I said was this:
If the value is self-evident, then students – who aren’t stupid – will see it.
@spud
- The requirement was twice the number of students that voted for the president would have to sign a petition just to get the issue heard. The thing is, you will struggle to find a student association in the country where 10% of students care about the issue one way or the other. Most students have nothing to do with the students associations.
-A student union is not central or local government, you’d have to be silly to make that comparison.
- Of course it’s more convenient for the student association to force students to join, but giving students the option of ticking a box to say “yes” I want to join or “no” I don’t want to join isn’t a heavy burden, and if student’s can’t do that, they shouldn’t be at uni.
Not if students value those services and the advocacy.
If they don’t value them, then that is their choice. If they are important to you, then join, and convince others to do likewise. Students are smart enough to act in their own best interests.
I can’t wait to be free. I want to choose for myself and this bill, soon to be an act of parliament will allow me that privilege that I would expect to extend to all.
Education is a commodity. The majority of people don’t go to university to learn – they go there to get a qualification so they can earn more money.
This has happened over the last 30 years or so.
VSM is just another step in this direction. Fewer Arts students, more Commerce and Law students.
VSM will strengthen the right’s ability to increase fees because SU’s will have a weaker voice. Apart from that I don’t know any real reason to oppose VSM.
Students have become more apathetic as time has gone by – this seems to be the end result of such apathy.
@Peter – Join me up to the ACT Party if you like!
!
!
Oh boy would Spudddy have some fun then!
Go on, I dare ya!
Oliver – things do get passed that students put forward!
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Student bodies are large and a uni is like a small city.
@Oliver – It’s not just a tick, it’s knowing everything behind that tick.
There’s a lot to do at that time of year 
Peter – sometimes they don’t know what they’ve got until they get into bother.
Hi Stephen
I’m surprised swampy isn’t here. 
@Spud – last time they tried the petition got torn up by a young green http://www.salient.org.nz/news/act-pushes-for-vsm-on-clubs-day
I guess that’s better than ACT on campus getting violent with Edgar in his cadge.
People can opt out of their students association if they wish. This argument is pointless.
Currently you are automatically put into your association as the majority of students use and want to support the services the associations provide. If you’re unhappy with it, opt out, or exercise your right as a consumer and choose to study somewhere else. It’s logistics – More students want to be apart of it than those who don’t….therefore we auto join you, and you can leave if you have reason to.
You righties really have so little faith in students that you think they are sitting quiet about VSM because they are victims? they know how to protest, they know how to advocate change. Truth is they like and want their association, hence the reason they protest AGAINST VSM.
Students are the most active sector of society, I would have thought if they were being bullied into joining these associations as you people would have us believe, there would have been numerous protests by now. Instead they line the streets to boo the smiling assassin? wow, seems they like their students association.
4 ACTonCampus members spread throughout NZ fortunately don’t carry the weight to ruin things for the rest of the student population.
Certainly
Send me the fee, and I’ll sign you up. Let’s set the fee the same as the SU fee. This fee includes my processing charge. I’m sure you’ll agree, your compulsory membership will provide, in the words of another poster, “(an) incredible amount of benefit.. for a very low price”
That’s rather paternal of you. It sounds to me like you think you know better than they do about what is best for them.
I’m sure they are smart enough to work it out for themselves. If not, then they will learn a lesson.
One of the earlier commenters said that this could affect Student Job Search. SJS gets most of its money from the MSD, not from student associations, so I’m not sure VSM would be a big issue for it.
Interestingly enough, some years ago the IRD released a ruling regarding student association fees – the issue being whether they could be regarded as donations in the same way as school fees and thus enable the payer to claim a 1/3rd credit back. When it traversed the issues it said (in effect) that there’s an opportunity there where student fees are voluntary and where membership doesn’t provide them with any rights – ie all students at the university are provided access to the services, not just members.
With compulsory membership, there’s no such opportunity because a donation needs to be voluntarily, not enforced.
It defies belief that in the 21st century students do not crave freedom of choice. I do not begin to understand this phenomenon.
@Chris – it’s because they like their SAs and get a good deal.
@Peter – Okay, just post yer bank account number up on here so I can arrange the transfer
Oops, think one of my comments may have been deleted. Regarding telling people who disagree with the post itself or the ideology it contains to ‘go somewhere else’, that’s pretty silly – why have open comments if you’re just going to discourage reasonable debate from both the affirmative and the negative? Sure, you’re within your rights to shut down on any commentary which you disagree with, but I don’t think that leads to a healthy society where people should feel open to state their opinion in any forum they like.
@spud 4.13pm If students liked their SAs and got a good deal then surely membership doesn’t need to be compulsory as students would join voluntarily.
Paying from their bleepin course costs which are too low anyway!
@ Josh
Surely opting out is just the same as opting in. It would be like automatically getting fries with any purchase at a fast food outlet.
Students are the most active sector of society?
You surely must be joking Josh. I’d say those people who rise before midday would be more active than most students.
The students of today are apathetic, apolitical and self-interested. 200 at a protest? Maybe the media will pay attention when it’s 2000.
@Curious – It’s not the same because the union levy no longer gets paid for by their student loans and has to go on their course costs, so the prospect of having less money to pay for books cos of this might be off putting.