The wealth of New Zealand’s 150 richest people have grown by almost 20% in one year with the combined wealth of New Zealand’s richest burgeoning from $38.2 billion to $45.2 billion – the highest total ever.
But it seems enough is never enough. Having made their fortune, some of the Rich Listers are still demanding the ”freedom” to make even more money. They want reduction in costs for business and excessive regulation addressed. I take that to mean the usual : cut workers’ rights, privatise ACC, reduce taxes. This is despite New Zealand consistently ranking as having the highest levels of business “freedoms” in the world.
They talk about “wealth creation” as if they have done it all on their own, without the help of governments, taxpayers, workers and the generations gone before.
The NBR editor-in-chief Nevil Gibson even called the Rich Listers “national treasures” in the headline of his editorial about the Rich List.
For goodness sake. What have we come to?
I want to know where the poor list is.
Yes, we talk about the poor, (occasionally) but they are faceless individuals. If their stories are told, they are often blamed by the likes of John Key for having a “poor attitude”.
Being poor is nothing to celebrate, but we have to talk about it and face facts.
The question is how we better share wealth in New Zealand today.
Could the Rich Listers tell us their ideas for that – just for a change, rather than the continuing demand for more of the same that has led us to being one of the most unequal societies in the world.
Please?
Darien I find the first statement to be incredibly envious and quite frankly if that’s the attitude that Labour MPs have then Labour shouldn’t be in government.
The second thing is when you mention wealth distribution. I hope that doesn’t mean socialism, because if that’s the case it won’t work. We haven’t had a Keynesian system since 1984 and I think that that’s because no one wants it back. By all means have intervention just don’t get carried away with it.
Darien, your comment “Are you you saying that because New Zealanders don’t want to work for low wages in very temporary and probably extremely labour intensive work in your industry, you want to import poor migrants to do the work instead?”
Are you insinuating that we pay the migrant workers low wages? I hope not, because the pay / wages on offer for those that wish to work hard are not to bad…
You state that workers shoulndt be worse off. Well with all the available pay outs with the dole etc, many are worse off, but this is no reason not to work…. The mere fact that one is actually working can be and is very good for the soul in my book… Without even knowing you stated it, it seems you advocate it is better to stay on a benefit than work !!!!
Even the way you say “probably extremely labour intensive work” you sound like that everyone should be earning 70K + etc…
To many people don’t wish to start at the bottom & work their way up… I am not scarred from doing this… A few people need a good dose of concrete pills and harden up!
Whafe.
You could employ some migrant workers to check your spelling and grammar.
As for the borrowing under Labour, apparently I owe $50 000 dollars to offshore interests even though I have no loan. Because apparently some other people have borrowed a lot of money and every NZer now has a $50 000 loan. Yet if I trot to my bank and ask for a $50 000 loan I get short shrift… I don’t have the assets or income to secure that money. So those who have have borrowed against their security and, indebted all beneficiaries and all others, and now have to pay fraction of cents in the dollar to every beneficiary for the right to hock their future. That seems fair.
The increase of suicide in the unemployed is down to the bashing and attitude toward beneficiaries this society exhibits. This society refuses to give up its cherished unsubstantiated prejudices about what people should be doing and therefore deserves both the suicide rate, and the crimes committed to ensure the incarceration rate. We are people first, members of a society second, members of a an economy last.
@Red Devil : the first statement is factual and taken from news reports. Just trying to have a discussion on something that affects us all.
@Whafe – the comment about low wages for migrants was based on your comment about getting an RSC scheme. Most of these workers are on minimum wage. If you are paying more, then good on you and I presume then you support lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour so good employers like you aren’t undercut? And yes, work is good for the soul, but it also has a purpose, which is to put bread on the table.
Curious – Great contribution. Am a farmer not a spelling scholar…
Best you also correct Stephen above…
Stephen, I think you will find that there is no correlation to the atrocious suicide rate in NZ to unemployment… Suicide tends not to distinguish itself within sectors of the community…
Well those on the RSC scheme earn a minimum of the minimum wage, but the teams work on a contract basis, so the more work they do, the more money they earn.
I don’t support the lifting of the minimum wage, it would be nice, but as a country we cant afford it. Yes the cost of living in NZ is Higher than High, but raising the min wage would then force the vast majority of products raise in price more…
Yes on putting bread on the table, bread on the table and soul food can only be good…..
Sorry Whafe I couldn’t resist.
I think there needs to be more flexibility with the way that beneficiaries can earn while receiving their benefit.
I can remember being on a benefit and worrying that if I worked too much that I would incur a penalty that would often outweigh the work that I had done.
Warren Buffet, according to the definitions of some here must have wealth envy and suffer from tall poppy syndrome. Seems kind of unlikely. I hope we are not getting to a place where only the wealthy can criticise the actions of anyone wealthy.
Imagine if only the poor could criticise the poor, there would be little of it.
“My wealth has come from a combination of living in America, some lucky genes, and compound interest. Both my children and I won what I call the ovarian lottery. (For starters, the odds against my 1930 birth taking place in the U.S. were at least 30 to 1. My being male and white also removed huge obstacles that a majority of Americans then faced.) My luck was accentuated by my living in a market system that sometimes produces distorted results, though overall it serves our country well. I’ve worked in an economy that rewards someone who saves the lives of others on a battlefield with a medal, rewards a great teacher with thank-you notes from parents, but rewards those who can detect the mispricing of securities with sums reaching into the billions. In short, fate’s distribution of long straws is wildly capricious.
The reaction of my family and me to our extraordinary good fortune is not guilt, but rather gratitude. Were we to use more than 1% of my claim checks on ourselves, neither our happiness nor our well-being would be enhanced. In contrast, that remaining 99% can have a huge effect on the health and welfare of others. That reality sets an obvious course for me and my family: Keep all we can conceivably need and distribute the rest to society, for its needs. My pledge starts us down that course. ”
I suspect this is what Darien was getting at in her opening thread. It;s what I took her to be conveying anyway
@Curious – People on the dole are required to look for work. What else they do should be up to the individual because they know their circumstances best. Especially if the person is ill or has a disability. We wouldn’t want to strip people of their liberty and have them state owned now would we?
If people want to train or work then they should have that choice, if they don’t then they should also have that choice.
Bleep me, I come back to this? “Spud – with all due respect, that is utter BS to say that MOST people on the dole want to work” – Remember that long supermarket queue? I think most people want more out of life than the dole. Unless you agree with Bennett that they’re living the dream.
Spud, you post at 8.18 in the PM does not make sense with your post at 8.22 in the PM…
You advocate that people should have choice re training or work. That is BS. You then in your next post go on to say that most people want more out of life than the dole…
If this is the case, why do we have 3rd generation dole people?
You cannot deny that the welfare system is now not a safety net that it was designed for, it is now a career choice for many..
@Whafe – really, making bennies work for below the minimum wage is exploiting them. Plus the greedy employers who could take advantage. Nobody should be made to work for less than our pitiful minimum wage.
@Stephen – yeah, I wish people would lay off them!
“more of the same that has led us to being one of the most unequal societies in the world.”
Here’s where we come according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Measuring by the UN’s R/P 10% 67th most equal out of 127
Measuring by the UN’s R/P 20% 56th most equal out of 126
Measuring by the UN’s GINI index 51st most equal out of 127
Measuring by the CIA’s GINI index 53rd most equal out of 135
In three of those four methods, we’re more equal than more than half the countries measured. In the fourth method, 52% of the countries measured are more equal than us. In any case the accuracy of the measurement is dependent on the same data being collected in the same way in each country, which of course it isn’t. And in each of those measurements, the denominator doesn’t represent all countries in the world.
As a voter who never decides until the last minute, it bothers me when someone who might be involved with the spending of my hard-earned taxpayer’s money states things as bald fact but doesn’t check their assertions for accuracy or any qualifiers that may apply.
When income from labour is taxed but not income from invested capital gain, it’s no wonder that the rich get richer.
When we had death duties and gift duty this prevented accumulation of wealth within families but now we risk moving to a gated community and other society.
Unions really need to connect labour to worker shareholdings.
bea the problem is we were once near the top and we have declined to where we are now, at this rate where will we end up?
PS We are well below 20 out of only 30 within the OECD.
Spud – Never have advocated people working for below the minimum wage…
But you fundamentally have no issue with people spending a life on the dole, this comes out in your writings… That in itself is a worry…
The previous decade the vast majority of people in NZ were spending some 10% more per week than they were earning. Credit was easy to come by… Things have changed, taking that into account re people now not being able to spend more than they earn, along with the big increases in costs, we are not in a situation where by it is very hard to make ends meet…
The world is going to get a HUGE reality check on living standards..
Some people should be on the Dole for there entire life.
They are destructive to workplaces and reduce productivity.
Im happy for my tax to go to those very very small percentage of people on the dole who should stay there.
The rest do not want to be there and goals are 2 find work.
All that happens when key comes out and says its a lifestyle choice is that it makes it harder for those people to find work by lowering confidence and setting up a hatred for people on the dole.
@Whafe – I do think that most people want more out of life than the dole, but also that people have varying circumstances so should be free to make their own minds up on how to proceed.
Most dolies get off the dole reasonably quickly.
“Never have advocated people working for below the minimum wage…” – Sorry, must have mixed you up with the other person.
I agree with you about credit.
@waterboy – you’ve nailed it.
Waterboy’s last post reeks of social darwinism and classism.
I’m sure there are a very small portion of the public that are simply unemployable but definitely not all the people on benefits. I have heard of many young people who receive the sickness benefit due to depression. Oh you’re depressed? Well here’s some money then. Why don’t you sit around and do nothing for a bit? I’m sure that will make you feel better.
Instead of paying people to do nothing we should pay them a bit more to do something. I’m sure there are a thousand things that need doing in New Zealand. The work assigned could also be a form of training to ready people to re-enter the workforce and give them a sense of worth as well as some life skills.
Tama tu tama ora, tama noho tama mate
An active person will remain healthy while a lazy one will become sick
whoa moderation? What gives? Speaking Maori gets you moderated, lol.
“why do we have 3rd generation dole people” – Could you post the exact numbers of 3rd generation beneficiairies and the percentage they make up of overall recipients.
““Looking across all forms of benefits, 61.4 % of recipients are benefit dependent for four years or less. Only 14.3 % are on benefits for more than ten years – and since those figures include people with chronic physical and mental disabilities, the ratio of those staying on benefits because it is a “lifetime, lifestyle choice’ is lower again. ””
@Curious – I think that they should be allowed to decide what is appropriate for them and not have something imposed on them. Calling someone lazy because they are not up to training or work is not appropriate.
Depression is an extremely debilitating condition, they can’t just snap out of it. Surely people who are suffering have the right to make their own decisions as to whether they can work or train or need a rest.
@Tracey – Hell yes, I’m getting p-ed off with this bennie bashing and people who want the state to own the bennies.
@Bea I dont make things up. Try looking at the OECD stats where NZ is 25th out of 34 for inequality, read Wilkinson and Pickett research and this article yesterday in the SST
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/5366625/National-treasures-Thats-rich
One last link : Just for Bea : http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/27/60/47570121.pdf