I thought we lived in a free democracy. Since when did a sign become illegal when expressing an opinion or encouraging people to act? Does this ban all signs at marches that may in any way be linked to a movement or political party. The EC needs to pull their heads in. This is not the 1930s in Europe.
The law may be an ass, but it’s still the law. And your guys voted for it…
It would seem that the EC is very blinkered when it comes to applying the rules. Any chance of seeing the decision?
At least it is better than the Electoral Finance Act, and Damien voted for that too.
Hahaha this is ridiculous
Damien, bit of a knee jerk post wouldn’t you think ????
Bit late to question the law, an ass it maybe, but as is mentioned above, your team voted for it. Now you need to live and accept it..
@ Jackal; maybe it’s just that some parties are allegedly breaching the law more than others …
Don’t blame the referee; blame the players who keep breaking the rules
“Since when did a sign become illegal when expressing an opinion or encouraging people to act?”
It was that time when all the law professors went down to protest the Electoral Finance Act.
This must win the funniest thread of the month for sure…..
Damien, you are a poet and you don’t even know it…..
Hope the Electoral Commission is reading this. Is this what our democracy has come to?
I agree with you Damien
What has become of The NZ Labour Party…
Godwins law hit in one juvenile paragraph. Has Damien been drinking?
Looks like one of them endangered snails down the coast has woke up.
Come on Damien, this is just teasing what on earth are you referring to?
I think most would find these crocodile tears being shed for “democracy” at best ironic:
EFA, VSM, Pledge Cards etc and et al
Is Damien a “One” now?
Second CK, what are you referring to specifically?
The law is blindingly simple – authorise. Why do Labour (and other parties) find this so hard to follow?
You are right, this is exactly like 1930s Europe. If we don’t do something about this immediately, Herr Key will be erecting a ghetto in Lower Hutt and moving all jews, gypsies and homosexuals there for mass genocide.
Cadbury are already shutting down production and are retooling their factory for Panzer production.
The Electoral commissar must be stopped immediately Mein Fuhrer.
Uhmmm Sadu, this is the law that Labour passed and got National to re-confirm. Labour even voted for it. Twice.
Oliver I – It wasn’t the Lawyers that were protesting EFA (at least till after they were paid), it was the media that didn’t like their business restricted. Doubly so when they found out how much the Brethren had to spend.
Sorry Whale, forgot to add the[sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags around my comment
My intention was to illustrate that comparing the NZ electoral advertising rules to Nazi Germany might be just a weeeee bit over the top. Especially if one’s own party voted for said laws.
PS how come my comment is awaiting moderation? Is it because I said “Nazi”?
You just bought yourself a warning. Clare
Deleted. Inciting. You are warned. Clare
That would be the 19th December 2007:
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ?/PB/Legislation/Bills/b/a/c/00?DBHOH_BILL8029_1-Electoral-Fin?ance-Bill.htm
Ah the irony Clare, in a thread on freedom to express an opinion, you moderate opinions!
Clare.
Please explain to me why Sadu’s comment deserves a warning.
Clare. I sincerely, really sincerely, want to vote Labour. I just find it very hard to convince myself to do this after visiting this site and seeing such nonsense as is on offer in this thread of discussion.
I continue to be in moderation for comments that are in no way offensive. It seems to me that disagreeing with either you or Trevor warrants warnings, time in moderation or an outright ban.
I’m a Labour Party member. I regularly talk with other members including other Labour Party MP’s. Do the Labour Party’s core principles of Democratic Socialism not apply to this forum? Is this a forum at all? What do you hope to achieve by insulting and restricting the commenting rights of people who visit here?
As for Mr O’Connor… I haven’t heard much of him since his last outburst.
Let’s see if I get “warned” for speaking my mind.
Clare Curran said
Agree with the first sentence. This thread would provide the EC with some light relief given the stack of complaints it is currently having to consider.
Labour is hoist by its own petard methinks. It’s called the law of unintended consequences.
It would be ironic indeed if Damien was really referring to the European Community, where (in London) Police are allegedly picking targets for prosecution based on the fact that some of the Fortnum & MAsons occupiers were carrying signs.
Unauthorisation of signs during elections is endemic. I remember complaining about it years ago.
Whats new is the ability of farragoblog and oily cetacean to make lots of noise about labours signs.
Wow. Just wow. It is amazing how complete ignorant arrogant and out of touch with reality you are Damien and Clare.
Do you even understand why we are so suprised or is this all just over your heads?
It is amazing that those who protested so loudly in favour of “freedom of speech” are now revelling in its excessively bureaucratic regulation.
Clare:
I do hope the Electoral Commission is reading this. I’m sure they will happily arrange a briefing for you and Damien (and any other MP) on the Electoral Act, including the amendments you both voted for during the term of the Fifth Labour Government. Victoria University also has excellent history and political science departments who can explain the difference between New Zealand in 2011 and the electoral environments under Messers Franco, Mussolini, Stalin and Hitler.
On a slightly more serious note, you might want to think about posting further attacks in these terms on the integrity and independence of the Electoral Commission. Not really a good look from someone on the front bench of a mainstream political party.
Micky, and vice versa.
(Seriously, is that your best defense?)
No-one’s revelling in anything micky. We’re just pointing out the blindingly obvious hypocrisy that’s at play here. Had Labour opposed the replacement, O’Connor and Curran might have a point. But they supported the repeal of the EFA, and they voted in favour of its replacement. Surely, it’s not to much to expect our lawmakers to comply with the laws they have drafted, debated and passed?
ghostwhowalksnz says:
Unauthorisation of signs during elections is endemic. I remember complaining about it years ago.
I reply:
Really? I’ve worked on a lot of general and local body campaigns over the last twenty years, and I’ve seen little evidence that at the flaxroots there’s any great problem grasping the law, asking the Electoral Commission or Registrar for advice when in doubt, and if beeches have occured (more often out of carelessness than malice) taking the lumps without going for the Godwin.
If MPs have a problem with legislation around campaigns, they’re in a position to change the law deleted. Clare
Surely, it’s not to much to expect our lawmakers to comply with the laws they have drafted, debated and passed?
This is a question that Damien O’Connor and Clare Curran really need to answer in a way that makes sense if they don’t want this post to make Labour a laughing stock.
very few laws passed are perfect. this is one of them. of course we have to comply subject to the correct interpretation by the EC
Have you considered introducing a member’s bill or adopting a party platform for the upcoming election of removing regulation around election advertising?
It’s like you guys are under siege at the moment clare, can’t seem to do anything right, what’s so hard about doing what the law says, who authorises your stuff have none of them EVER read the law?
Psycho Milt said
That particular horse might have already bolted Milt…
I was also stunned when I read the decision. Stunned that the LP hadn’t gone to the EC first to make sure it was all “kosher”. Is it because the EC would have taken too long to comment? Why?
I also chuckle at those who suggest they are altruistic in NOT wanting the EFA when it appeared the biggest (not all by any means) opponents were those who have the money to buy the favour.
Craig you must go around with your eyes shut. Have you asked if any complaints have been made you would find out your ‘experience’ is limited
I thought we lived in a free democracy. Since when did a sign become illegal when expressing an opinion or encouraging people to act?
Its not. What’s illegal is pubishing an electoral advertisement without a promoter statement. And that’s been illegal since 1977, and re-stated in every update of electoral law since.
This is not a new law. What’s new is the insistence of one of our major parties that they do not have to obey it. And I really don’t think that’s acceptable.
“Since when did a sign become illegal when expressing an opinion or encouraging people to act?” Obvious, when it contravenes a LAW.
Just because you don’t agree with a law, or it stops you doing anything you feel like doing, doesn’t give you the right to ignore it. I would have thought this is a terrible example to other citizens.
“Since when did a sign become illegal when expressing an opinion or encouraging people to act?” Obvious, when it contravenes a LAW.
Just because you don’t agree with a law, or it stops you doing anything you feel like doing, doesn’t give you the right to ignore it. I would have thought this is a terrible example to other citizens.
True tracey, LP could have gone to the EC to ask for a ruling but they didn’t, they could have followed the law but they didn’t, and now they’re blaming the law that they voted for. What does anybody have to do to get sacked for incompetence around here?
After local govt elections last year many signs were left up on the final day of postal vote and afterwards from memory, but few were fined for it; In some places around chch there are still the bolts of the signs. I’d suggest Mr O’Connor put forward a PMB to deal with any concerns he has about the legislation his party twice supported.
Ghostwhowalks:
My eyes are wide open, pet. I also know what the word “endemic” means, and am not entirely sure you do. As No Right Turn points out, it has been illegal to publish electoral advertisements without promoter statements for over thirty years. Don’t know where the heck you live Ghostie, but I’ve seen no evidence that there some “endemic” comprehension fail among political parties and candidates on that score.
The basic law since 1977… Why labour, why?
Phil Goff has already apologised for the breach. Now Damien is complaining about it. Would make good sense to sing from the same songbook.
Anyone remember the Brethren pamphlets?
Why damien and clare? Why publish comments that can only make the voting public believe that you believe you are above the law and do nothing to clear up their obvious ignorance on what you really think?