Liquor laws involve conscience votes for Labour MPs.
I support retaining 18 as the age for alcohol purchase.
The idea that you can marry and go to war but not purchase a beer is nuts.
I do however support much tighter rules around punishing those who sell to underage people. Including permanent license removal for second offenders.
I do not support liquor sales in dairies or small grocery shops except in very remote areas. I think we should implement that policy by not renewing current licenses as they expire. And not transferring them.
Sorry Trev but you are so out of tune with the country over this.
If it is about principle, there is such a thing as a stupid principle- like selling booze to kids. Maybe the age to fight in combat should be lifted to 20 instead if thats your arguement?
As for marriage, well is there ever a right age not to make a dumb choice about that?
BTW off topic but is anyone in parliament going change the law to yep flag burning is off topic. Trevor
I agree with the keeping it at 18, and not letting dairies sell alcohol (even in remote areas – that’s what pubs are for!), but I would go further to say that Supermarkets should only be allowed to sell wine, and should not be allowed to sell before 10am, or after 12midnight (for 24 hour supermarkets), or alternatively remove alcohol from general supermarkets and make them sell it separately like they do in Australia.
Tightening punishments around selling to underage will only work if there is tighter minimum punishments, and I think permanent license removal for secnd offenders is a bit harsh, I would suggest a gradual three strikes, so after a second offense a suspension of 12months or so, and then a permanent removal on the third offense.
Trevor, you do know it is the first day of the Duck Shooting season
Keep your head down mate!
yes Raymon. Every year for the 50 or so that I can remember someone or sometimes several dozen people have tried the Joke. Trevor
PS I agree with everything you say on this
you are right Trevor – we need to look at availability, not age limits. And I do not see why RTDs couldn’t attract a special tax.
Agree on keeping the age at 18. Binge drinking especially in youth but also amongst the 20+ is a problem without an answer. Where is Solomon when you need him/her?
oh no, I agree with Trevor
Did you all miss the societal consequences of the 18 year old drinking age over the last few years? Increased Policing due to this age group drinking, increased health costs and risks to young people? Are you all living in a cave? Ideology is one thing, but irresponsibility is quite another. The correlation between the drinking age being 20 and a reduced negative societal effect is blindingly clear. Do the right thing and take responsibility for this mess you’ve created and make a positive change for the better.
Overall a very confused position, you don’t want to limit availability on the basis of age, but on the basis of geographic location.
I suppose it’s an adequate compromise to prevent you alienating the 18-21 voter base.
Trev- Raymon being an academic would struggle with original humour (and I dare say I agree with you yet again)
But on the point of the post – in that trying to restrict sales from dairies and small Grocery shops is just more control by the state. Why should for instance the massive supermarket be allowed to sell as much as they can, but the shop around the corner cant? How do you determine what is an isolated shop. And then why should they get special preference over a local shop. Unless Labour is in the pocket of Big Supermarkets, I would suggest your idea is unworkable and discrimates. Really what you want is the poor areas such as South Auckland not being allowed to sell Alcohol, but around Oriental Bay it is not a problem.
Trev – your thinking is muddled (don’t worry – alway happy to point out the falacy of Socialist ideas)
I think you have it a bit backwards Trevor. Making harsher penalties for the liquor sellers is only going to mean more paranoia from them. What about that supermarket chain who would ID everyone and not just the purchaser? Is that even legal?
The offenders are the crims and the sellers are usually just innocent suckers!
Though some are slack and I once saw a chick behind the counter give booze to her obviously underaged mates, but most are merely suckers I’m sure! 
Comment two, trying to avoid the spam with a long comment. Why should yer average buyer be punished by making it harder to buy at supermarkets?
That’s just a pain in the a***! 
They ID people anyway and they are paranoid and have separate people to come and approve the alcohol purchases. People should have the convenience of buying their booze with their groceries and long hours suit shift workers.
As for remote areas, it’s worse to restrict them to pubs, it makes drink driving more likely.
@Dorothy – not more bleepin booze tax, the price keeps going up all the time anyway.
@Dave – I don’t disagree with ya, but they’re going to drink anyway so we may as well let them do it in pubs.
@Monty 2.53 – For once I totally agree with you dude!
See, that Irish blood is coming out good and strong today! 
Trevor , I not surprised you have heard the joke I thought it interesting you were prepared to put your head up on a subject like this on Duck opening day
I think your stance is correct, just a matter of convincing enough MPs it is the best and most sensible way to go
PS Congratulations on thanks Raymon. But I don’t have family/personal stuff on here. Private. Trevor
In the last 25 years how many 18 year olds have gone to a war for NZ? How many have got into a car and driven when drunk?
Old people drink drive too and all the youngens I know never have a drink if they are the sober driver. I think drunk drivers should be given a hard time and not yer average drinker who only wants to have the fun of drinking.
The supposition that the 18-20 are the problem drinkers who would be stopped with a raised drinking age is not borne out by the records. A big problem is with the <18 yo and increasingly this includes girls. The other problem is with those over 20. Some are in the 40+ so not just a youth problem. The big drinkers and binge drinkers are often in this group so raising the age from 18 to 20 won't help at all.
I’ll drink to that Ianmac!
18 YES, also yes to very strict ID checks and deal heavily with those supplying 16,14,12 years olds.
I take issue with restricting sales to pubs and liquor stores, and for purely selfish reasons.
The town I live in has 3 off-licences: A small bottleshop, the hotel bottleshop, and the 4square (beer & wine).
Much better prices on beer at the 4square, comparable to a big chain liquor outlet in the city. The others are a complete rip off.
Also agree with ianmac, I can drink way more than any teenager.
You missed my point spud which is that I think it’s ridiculous to use the “going to war” argument when no one goes to war unless they freely join the military.
I have an 18 year old living with me at the moment. My home is his bail address. He had been drinking for quite a while and drinks like a fish, and by that I mean QUICKLY, like it’s water. NOt that he does any of that now, it has got him into alot of trouble along with drugs. Interestingly he will be able to drink once he has his final appearance, drugs will remain illegal.
He is definitely an example of “it’s how we drink” that’s the problem. The problem is too many adult drinkers forget they are around young people who ought to be “learning” to drink. It get s all macho and keeping up and so on. And that is also the responsibility of the older drinkers who drink around younger drinkers.
it gets boring repeating this BUT I need to: why should mature 18-19 year olds be denied entry to a pub or restaurant for no other reason that immature individuals who lack self control spoil things by their pathetic drunken antics. Let’s not forget that people 20+ also act like tossers while drunk as well. I am for personal responsibility. There are also laws against ANYONE at ANY age being pissed in public places.
@Tracey – true,
No wonder you are feeling jaded about the booze. I hope he gets clean. Sneak some water into his grog.
Trev – in respect of your comment re Raymon @ 3.45pm above fair enough – all politicians should have a right to privacy in their personal lives. But should any MP breach that then can they expect their private lives to be put out there as fair game?
I know you are going after Brash at present- can you tell us all here that you will not expose or stoop so low as to make public details of his private life?
I’m inclined to favour leaving the age alone – a wise person said (though it was in reference to driving age rather than drinking age) if we were to wait till they were mature, no-one should be allowed to before they’re 35.
I’d prefer taking the education approach – educating those who have some influence over how people drink – such as rugby club committees. And directing them to resources to assist in providing the right environment to reduce problem drinkers.
Good idea Bea!
I know Wainuiomata has been a hotbed of anti-alcohol fervour with the recent opening of an additional bottle store and the free market response of making alcohol cheaper, but I don’t object to having a small bottle store nearby.
There have been a couple of times I’ve been at a barbie in the neighbourhood and needed to grab some alcohol. Having a larger dairy with an attached bottleshop is very convenient.
The issue with reducing alcohol harm is not availability, it’s education and responsibility.
Monty, read up brother, it appears the Brash smearing is coming from the right, not the left.
Why aren’t drugs a right like alcohol?
IMHO We should not have lowered the purchase age at Bottlo’s.
Drinikg in pubs has always been a safer and controlled driking enviroment, If you put a foot wrong you get the boot, but all this raising taxes on Beer etc has done is force people out of the pubs and to drink at home.
A dozen beer from a supermarket is the same price a dozen been has been for the last 15 years, Yet if i go inot the pub, a jug of beer is way more than twice what it was back then.
We have encouraged people to drink at home, in the streets and at partys and forced them away from pubs. This is where i beleive the problem is. I started drinking in Pubs at the age of 15, we stayed out of trouble, were looked after and there was non of the problems there are now.
Kids now still start at 15, but they drink in uncontrolled environments.
Bleepin true waterboy and I would add that preloading is the result of bleepin expensive pub drinks!
And pubs arnt able to use a loss leader to sell cheap beer.
I know of a supermarket that banned a local publican (and members of his family) who were buying beer from the supermarket at a cheaper price than he could buy it from the brewerys.
I feel sorry for the publicans
I quite like being able to pop into my local 4sq to pick up some beers when i have a mild thirst on.
Keeping it 18 is the most sensible thing the government can do.
The ideal age at which you can drink at is arbitrary and no matter the age is it will not stop the supply of alcohol to minors, it will also not make these people more responsible with alcohol once they’ve obtained it.
At age 18 you are considered a legal adult in New Zealand so there is no basis to deny those 18+ to purchase and drink alcohol for their own consumption. This should apply to all environments, not just on licensees.
The real focus should be enforcing the social ramifications of alcohol abuse. This I feel is the only way we can real tackle the alcohol problem we have. Restricting or prohibiting it does not work – it provokes people to rebel more in order to obtain alcohol and leads to more harmful consumption.
Thank you Trevor for keeping it 18. Hopefully you can convince your other labour colleagues to vote to keep the drinking age at 18 years old.