WHY UNI?: How important is a University education? Is it needed? Is too much emphasis placed on a university education? Are those who would like to attend varsity prepared?
GET A JOB: Is the whole point of a university education to get a job or is it to create a more well-rounded individual? Does today’s workforce require a tertiary degree? Are we preparing our students for the work force? Are there jobs for our graduates? Should our universities be more specialized with the degrees they offer?
LIVE pub politics from the Backbencher Pub: Wednesday, 30TH of March. 9pm with drinking from about 7.30pm The Panel: ACT MP Heather Roy, Green MP Keith Locke, Labour MP David Shearer, and National MP Katrina Shanks.
“Does today’s workforce require a tertiary degree? Are we preparing our students for the work force? Are there jobs for our graduates?”
Hell, I sure hope so, otherwise the next few years might be a bit of a waste
What I’ve noticed recently is that employees seem to take more notice of a qualification that has Diploma or Bachelor (or higher) in front of it than they do to some thing with NCEA in front.
My goodness Trevor.
I read the heading for the post and thought he must be the new leader of the Labour party.
I assumed the second part related to Phil Goff
You really must be more careful or who knows how many people like me will assume that your party is coming to its senses.
David King, I think you’ll find astute employers take more notice of a positive work ethic and attitude than they do of anything anything with Diploma, Bachelor, Masters or PhD.
Hey Trev et al
This is a piece that may be of interest:
“Skilled jobs will go to the lowest bidder worldwide. A decline in middle class pay and job satisfaction is only just beginning.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/28/education-jobs-middle-class-decline
Just three education topics in this forum for the whole of March. Hint – Anne Tolley is the National cabinet’s weakest link. Hint – National Standards are NOT working!
As usual, Labour seems to think that a tertiary education means a university education. I guess more lawyers is just what the economy needs. We can import the builders and plumbers and nurses from Asia.
Go Ella – You so smart, uni or not you’ll kick butt (or footballs) in life!
Trevor, uni creates a lot of well rounded people, haven’t you ever heard of the fresher five?
Calm down Alwyn, man why can’t Alwyn and Olwyn ever be on at the same time?
, Goff is here to stay! Good bloke, I wish people would give him a break! 
I don’t think Universities should be more specialised with their degrees because Universities are not job training thingys they are places of intellectual exploration!
In theory anyway.
Plus, who knows what stuff might be useful at this learned at uni?
@jennifer, so true, we need kiwis in the medical profession.
@Spud: Hi, it’s me, Olwyn, the left wing one, and I shall not comment on Alwyn’s slightly off-thread remark.
I think the problem comes down to whether or not economies are able to generate an adequate number of meaningful jobs. University is in fact a mixture of both of those values; increasing chances for employment and creating well rounded individuals. However, in an economy with jobs aplenty, less people want to go to university, some being more interested in boat-building, mechanics, hair-dressing and so on, and are confident of employment in those roles. What people want is to develop their lives, and if university presents the only chance of doing so, then more people go to university.
Averse to the thought of a job rich economy, right wingers then set out to make it more difficult for people to go to university, treating it as a fancy way of avoiding or postponing the low-paid drudgery with which they have largely replaced real employment.
Awww, thanks Spud
“I don’t think Universities should be more specialised with their degrees because Universities are not job training thingys they are places of intellectual exploration! In theory anyway.”
Agreed. Loads of people – especially those of us just out of High School – don’t really know what exactly they want to do career-wise. Obviously you have a rough idea of what stuff floats your boat – science vs arts for example, but even then you end up chopping and changing a little. I definitely know I wouldn’t want to be doing a degree that is so specialised there’s no wiggle room. The specialising comes with the post-grad stuff, I would have thought? The extra little bits and pieces that you do when you know what it is that you want to do for the next 40 years
“Hint – Anne Tolley is the National cabinet’s weakest link. Hint – National Standards are NOT working!”
True
Question – Trev, why did you not pick up the ed portfolio in this situation? With the election, your experiences and understanding of the current climate, i would have thought your experience was critical – did Goff happen to explain why Shearer? (dont get me wrong – I like him – just unsure of his background for this impt portfolio)
The concept and role of universities in 21st century NZ needs to be thoroughly discussed and debated. What we have now are some academics (not all, but numerous) who treat their students as a part time distraction, and treat getting detailed highly narrow academic treatises into obscure publications as a full time mission. Of course, this is exactly how they are being incentivised.
I also do not think that the university system as it stands serves society in the way we need at this time. They have to serve as a watchdog, a conscience, a guiding light, an inspiration to the rest of civil society. And on our policy makers. Except of course, no university professor dares speak up too loud lest their funding inexplicably suffers down the track.
Further, the university system doesn’t even serve postgrads and new doctoral holders the way they need.
Real jobs in each field are hard to come by and sometimes you literally have to wait until someone dies off before a decent post comes open.
How did it go last night? Anyone give anyone a hard time?
Just realised have got the day wrong. Don’t have television so someone could answer tomorrow? Hope it all goes well.
Paul @ 6.56pm. I’ve got another set of responsibilities that are also important, not in great physical shape and also think the public wants a fresh rather than recycled face. The Shearer decision is interim but he had a good mind and the advantagebof having been a member of the Select Committee pursuant to his science portfolio responsibilities.
Poor Trev,
, physically down. 
But mentally great! 
!
CV, great post. A dear friend of mine left 14 months ago to teach at a well regarding University in the UK. He had previosuly been at UNITEC. The thinghe has found hardest is the lack of student contact, of real teacing. His colleagues regard lectures as what they have to do to enable them to do research. This is not a new development in universities.
There is a place for universities but I agree with the person above who warns us to stop regarding tertiary and university as inter chageable. Polytechnics serve a great purpose. Their industry links ensure that students in everything from plumbing to Business interact with the practical application of their learning. The Degree I teach in has a very high placement rate after graduation with the very businesses who were involved in Degree placements.
I came through the University system and the intellectual snobbery that existed then exists today. MANY of my friends went to university and got degrees which have nothing directly t do with their current job/career, but it lays a very good foundation. We will suffer as a society if we fund only those courses a particular government sees as immediately correlating with a “job”. In particular National were the ones who completely misread the trends and reduced support for apprenticeships.
The biggest financial support for Schools at University are from al mamata or business interests. The Auckland Univeristy business school underwent major rebuilding in my time and again more recently. Some departments havent changed since 1892.
The study of ideas and concepts and the exploration of things past and which might be, might not match to a “job” but serve us well as society to have a mix of individuals operating alongside us.
@Trev – ta – just wondering. Incidentally, was at a recent event where david was speaking re education, and he did a very good job. So hats off to him, and I hope that it is not just an interim step and he keeps that portfolio – he appeared genuinely interested in finding out what the issues are and where to next. And, he seems to be the sort of person who would seek the whole picture and ask his colleagues (such as yourself) for further details if required. As far as I am concerned, I just want to see someone who is open, transparent and understands just how big of a responsibility the ed portfolio is, and who has the ability to break down the silos that keep seeing education sidelined and not working closely enough with the other key areas (justice/MSD/health etc). We will achieve a heck of a lot more if we start pooling resources and expertise – schools are the front line in terms of seeing social issues first hand.