“Satisfying needles filling the pleasure”?or speak English with Asian accent: “Certified needles feeling the pressure” ? working both ways.
[Image: Portrait of a lady in acupuncture therapy at the day spa. Source: http://www.123rf.com]
A graduation ceremony on Sunday (5 September) in Auckland may offer a better interpretation of the phrases “adaptation”, “settlement” or even “assimilation” in the context of preparing migrants to enter the workforce.
A group of 33 students were awarded a Bachelor’s degree in Health Science (Acupuncture). It is believed that it is the first time in New Zealand that such a degree has ever been made available. As Paddy McBride, President of NZ Register of Acupuncturists, rightly observed that it is difficult to call which one is harder: for westerners to learn acupuncture or for those highly-qualified Chinese practitioners to learn, again, acupuncture in New Zealand but in English.
It is a challenging journey for both. But for the graduates – largely Chinese – many of them were qualified in China after their compulsory 5-year medical school training at universities. At least one of them held a personal chair in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) and many others had practised for more than a decade before coming to New Zealand.
Therefore, to get such a degree in New Zealand is truly special and their achievement is awesome.
Acupuncture gained attention in the United States and subsequently in the western world when US President Nixon visited China in 1972. Traveling with the President was New York Times reporter James Reston (the famous reporter who had won the Pulitzer Prize twice) who underwent an emergency appendectomy. It was a conventional surgery at the (conveniently named) “Anti-Imperialist Hospital” in Beijing at that time but his post-operative pain was treated by a Dr Li with acupuncture. Reston was so impressed that he wrote about acupuncture upon returning to the United States.
In 1997, the U.S. National Institutes of Health formally recognisd acupuncture as a mainstream medicine healing option with papers documenting the procedure’s safety and efficacy for treating a range of health conditions. While awareness of acupuncture is growing, many in the world are still unfamiliar with both the theory and practice of acupuncture and therefore the ignorance and intrinsic prejudice to some extent.
The American experience has been helpful. When treading an uncharted territory, particularly in relation to something oriental such as TCM, it is normally the case that Kiwis would follow the footsteps of Aussies and Aussies Pommies and Pommies, Uncle Sam.
In that regard, the “English patient” (the patient who spoke English to be accurate) in 1972 helped.
My colleague Dr Rajen Prasad and I also extended our congratulations to New Zealand School of Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine, one of the oldest such institutions in NZ, providing education on TCM since 1994. Their commitment to providing a diverse education that honours traditions and modern approaches is particularly encouraging and forward-looking.
Australia has now implemented relevant legislation in the field of TCM. New Zealand lags behind and we will need to do something about it.
Well… I just stick my oar in.
I don’t think acupuncture is fake medicine but I wouldn’t call it medicine in the normal sense. Since in my mind medicine is like pills and that sort of rubbish.
I would call it alternative treatment. Also, acupuncture wasn’t invented by some conman this year. Its an old Chinese art that goes back a few 1000 years. So does alot ideas, like in the middle ages for example, they use to put broken bones in primitive wooden casts or the greeks, to help prevent minor health aliments they believed in a good diet and good excises.
So the ancients weren’t that silly, they didn’t have the tools/knowledge like we do today. Everything we know is slowly been found out over the past few 1000 years or so and there more to come.
In the future they will probably laugh at us, thinking the pill would fix our problems….
So it could be on the right track but yet to be perfected.
But overall I remain skeptical, just I can see why stick a needle in a special spot is suppose to make me feel better or cure my problems.
hey I’m not throwing a red herring in here mate.
Pain relief is a pretty big connection Matty. Lots and lots of people suffer from chronic pain.
Some patients choose not to have gut lining tearing anti-inflammatories for their analgesics, or gut stopping opioid drugs, they might choose to have say, I don’t know, acupuncture instead.
But you say here that acupuncture should not be available, where are those patients going to turn?
Don’t forget that typical top class pain killers only achieve satisfactory 50% pain reduction in 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 patients.
I think the other 3 in 4 or 4 in 5 patients will happily tell you what doesnt work.
And then they’ll ask you what now, I’m still in a lot of pain
Acupuncture, though, is precisely an artifact of that historic lack of tools/knowledge that you refer to, Red under the Bed. Pre-germ theory, pre-modern-biology, magical inventions like “Qi” and “meridians” were attempts to explain us – our bodies. These were, in a sense, early science. They can respected as archaic sciences, but as modern medicines they have been thoroughly usurped by actual knowledge of anatomy and physiology.
It wasn’t inconceivable that acupuncture had a physiological effect aside from the mythologising about it, all sorts of theories arose for how acupuncture might work, such as the idea that perhaps it stimulated the release of opioids. It is a physical invasion of the body, after all, so it’s perfect feasible. Unfortunately none of those theories have garnered compelling evidential support – not for lack of trying – and the actual benefits of acupuncture as therapy are pretty minimal. You’ll get the same benefits from a good old fashioned massage, without the remote risks of infection (if you are unlucky enough to have a bad practitioner) or collapsed lung that come with acupuncture. You might even get roughly as much benefit from a night in, a cup of tea, and really good comedy.
Why not take the free option?
“Pain relief is a pretty big connection Matty. Lots and lots of people suffer from chronic pain.
Some patients choose not to have gut lining tearing anti-inflammatories for their analgesics, or gut stopping opioid drugs, they might choose to have say, I don’t know, acupuncture instead.
But you say here that acupuncture should not be available, where are those patients going to turn?”
Well, it depends. I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say acupuncture shouldn’t be available at all. It’s more: Can we trust acpuncturists to (a) inform their patients of the limitations and risks of treatment (b) restrict their practice to therapeutic “pain-relieving” rituals only?
If they have lower back pain, they’re better off going to a chiro than an acupuncturist. As I understand it the only thing that chiro has any evidential support for at all is for some minor back pains. But, unfortunately, we know from practice that the chiropractic industry is incapable of self-regulation.
If we’re going to advocate placebo medicine as a therapy, why not offer simple, totally safe relaxation therapies that carry the same benefits as modalities like acupuncture with absolutely no risks at all? And considerably cheaper to boot.
Yeah mate as long as you keep thinking you know best, patients will keep voting with their feet.
Are you kidding me?
Everyone tries the free option first.
And for all those for whom it fails, what next?
Come on mate, GPs chuck all kinds of stuff at patients for pain every day. Do you know how many patients can’t even bear to bring themselves to a) fill the scripts and b) actually take the stuff?
Anti inflammatories, anti depressants, neuroleptics, opiates, muscle relaxants, the list goes on and on and on.
If this ‘proven’ stuff really worked that well why would acupuncture even have a chance eh?
Must burn you that there are dozens of registered medical practitioners in this country practicing acupuncture and they keep to it despite many of their colleagues casting them looks of increduality.
Anyways, its been fun, might continue tomorrow, cheers man.
“Everyone tries the free option first.”
I don’t know how true that is. Would make for an interesting study. Probably has been done.
“And for all those for whom it fails, what next?”
Sure, that’s a good question. I gave an answer above, a relaxation therapy that doesn’t carry the remote risk of infection or collapsed lung, and that doesn’t pretend to have medical properties far beyond those that it actually does.
“Come on mate, GPs chuck all kinds of stuff at patients for pain every day. Do you know how many patients can’t even bear to bring themselves to a) fill the scripts and b) actually take the stuff?”
There’s definitely a problem with overprescription. The medical community knows, and acknowledges in their literature, that there’s one thing alternative practitioners can offer more of: Time. The sheer volume of patients through the medical system versus the enormous shortfalls in funding and the inevitable rationing of medical services means doctors cannot offer the same kind of time and attention as alt-practitioners. That’s definitely a big problem, and it drives over prescription.
Nevertheless, most pharmaceuticals are pretty effective. No, they don’t come with the added soothing benefit of a person paying you individual attention, or ritualising over you. That’s true. It’s even, I concede, a major drawback for medicine versus alternative health.
“Must burn you that there are dozens of registered medical practitioners in this country practicing acupuncture and they keep to it despite many of their colleagues casting them looks of increduality.”
Doctors are human too. Deepak Chopra was an MD once, and he’s basically insane now.
Night Loota. Take care.
So let me get this straight Matty
We should ignore acupuncture because it isn’t endorsed by reputable medical practicioners, and we can tell which practicioners are repubatable by whether or not they endorse acupuncture?
Wow I have a lot of catching up to do!
I read something that was talking about how the process of homeopathy changing the molecules of the water creating clusters and stuff (the info was way over my head – which still hurts from thinking 
) And there are particles that are smaller than cells and bigger than something really tiny that behave differently to the bigger and smaller particles. – I don’t really understand, but the upshot is that something in the energy of the water changes with some kind of imprint in this hypothesis. 
Man, you made me think
Head hurts 
“Well… I just stick my oar in.” Ouch!
Couldn’t you have just used a needle like the other practitioners? 
“In the future they will probably laugh at us, thinking the pill would fix our problems” – Yeah, it’s kinda emasculating!
No one laughs at physios for pressing on particular spots!
“We should ignore acupuncture because it isn’t endorsed by reputable medical practicioners, and we can tell which practicioners are repubatable by whether or not they endorse acupuncture?”
Not necessarily. There is, unfortunately, quite a big divide sometimes between medical practitioners and what the research says. Again, this a systemic problem in the medical system that stems from lack of funding and, frankly, lack of swift channels of communication. Just because a doctor prescribes acupuncture doesn’t mean they’re uncommitted to evidence-based-medicine, they might be misinformed, but it’s certainly a red flag.
My point with ‘doctors are human’ is simply that. Doctors, as highly trained individuals as they are, are not infallible. Less fallible than the physiologically ignorant, it’s true, but not infallible.
“No one laughs at physios for pressing on particular spots!”
That’s because physios generally have a good understanding of anatomy, don’t dramatically and dangerously oversell what their modality can offer, and – if they’re good – inform their patients in meaningful terms about what problems are occurring. Chiros, bio-orthonomists, acupuncturists are generally recognisable to the scientifically literate because they use meaningless jargon that only sounds superficially plausible. Chiropractic subluxations, for example, sound technical, but they don’t exist. Same goes for meridians and Qi, they sound impressive, but they don’t correspond to any anatomical structures, they’re just pre-scientific speculations.
I prefer to think of meridian and qi theory as part of ‘the ancient enlightenment of the orient’
Oh and please remember that medicine is not scientific, it is an applied technology.
How is it enlightened if the theory makes it harder to see/do anything useful? An Enlightenment is a period of heightened learning about the natural world and our role in it, not bricking over everything with impotent mysticism.
It is only harder, because you have not yet unlearned what you need to unlearn.
Like how studies are included or excluded in meta-analysis. That **** is the black arts. Or, “impotent mysticism” if you prefer.
And don’t forget patients will walk with their feet if you can’t offer them the answers that they need…maybe you can lend them some peer reviewed journals to help convince them you got it in hand?
“It is only harder, because you have not yet unlearned what you need to unlearn.”
Ah yes. Very profound, grasshopper. But bear in mind you are the one advocating a return to obsolete and ineffective modalities.
“Like how studies are included or excluded in meta-analysis. That **** is the black arts. Or, “impotent mysticism” if you prefer.”
I imagine it has a great deal to do with, among other factors, the quality of the studies. That’s a pretty concrete consideration: Are they double-blinded? etc.
“And don’t forget patients will walk with their feet if you can’t offer them the answers that they need…maybe you can lend them some peer reviewed journals to help convince them you got it in hand?”
What desperate patients will do when they’re lied to by charlatans is quite a different matter to what patients will do when they’re well-informed and acting in their own best interests. My grandmother – a wonderful, intelligent woman – has terminal cancer. She could go to the Rife clinic that operates in Christchurch and be lied to in elaborate ways. She could listen to self-deceptions of certain naturopaths. Thankfully, she’d rather look the odds frankly in the face and ground her hopes in reality – in science-based medical treatment. I don’t see your point here. People are being preyed upon by ignorant charlatans in enormous numbers? Isn’t that a strike against CAM?
“Oh and please remember that medicine is not scientific, it is an applied technology.”
Apologies, I have to call bullshit on this. What is “applied technology” if not applied science? What is an “unscientific technology”? It sounds as if you do not have much of a grasp on what science and technology actually is.
@Spud
Needles aren’t bigger enough.. lol
I can fix pain, if your leg hurts I bash you on the head with my oar, does the leg still feel sore, no, its your head now.
What I meant was in the future hopeful they can cure with far better means than popping pills.
Start getting people to the gym and teaching them to cook right and not have 11 beers in one sitting you won’t have to
“Start getting people to the gym and teaching them to cook right and not have 11 beers in one sitting you won’t have to”
Well, no. You’ll have to do it a little bit less. No amount of healthy living can protect people from all disease and illness. Cancer, for example, is an unfortunate risk built into the very way our cells work. We may learn to prevent , but it won’t have as simple fix as “Eat your green
“Start getting people to the gym and teaching them to cook right and not have 11 beers in one sitting you won’t have to”
Well, no. You’ll have to do it a little bit less. No amount of healthy living can protect people from all disease and illness. Cancer, for example, is an unfortunate risk built into the very way our cells work. We may learn to prevent certain cancers, but it won’t have as simple fix as “Eat your greens and go to the gym.”
Time you brushed up on your research of the state in the art in the role of lifestyle factors and cancer, methinks.
I didn’t say that lifestyle factors don’t reduce the incidence of specific cancers. I simply said changing lifestyle factors will never eliminate all cancers.
It’ll do better than herceptin and gardasil.
By an order of magnitude or two.
Yeah dude. Are you like pretending that conventional medicine has answers which work for everyone and which suit everyone’s value systems. No? Then you better be ready to offer alternatives. And if you don’t offer them guess what? People will walk with their feet.
Oh, now you’re accusing patients who use acupuncture, chiropractic, osteopathy, homeopathy, massage therapy, reiki, tai chi, TCM, yoga, ayurvedic, etc. of being desperate and gullible?
OK, now that you’ve turned off 25-35% of the population, whats your next move?
Patients vote with their feet, mate.
Even the nursing model of care accepts the shortcomings of the traditional medical model.
Do you even have your annual practicing certifcate yet?
It seems that you haven’t spend a lot of time working in scientific, technology and industrial fields, given you are making a lot of, ummmm, textbook pronouncements.
Loota, I’m not part of the medical industry, I’m simply an occasional patient who takes it upon myself to be informed. I have a good grasp of the scientific method, and an amateurish grasp on philosophy of science.
Patients who turn to some of those modalities may not be so much gullible as prey to superficially convincing charlatans. They may very well be desperate though. Chronic pain is, you’ve noted, very difficult to treat. Patients deserve alternatives to pharmaceuticals and surgery, I agree. But they deserve good quality, evidence-based alternatives, not placebo medicine that grossly and unethically claims medical effectiveness where it has none: Reiki, homeopathy and acupuncture are placebos, they heal no one of anything that couldn’t be healed for free. Chiro may provide some genuine relief for lower back pain. Osteopathy is mainly a reformed industry, and while it’s not perfect, it’s a model that other therapeutic modalities could learn from: Cut the mystic crap, like so many osteopaths have. Don’t claim more power than you have. Explain to patients that a lot of what you do is not evidence-based so that they can make up their own minds.
I haven’t denied at all the shortcomings of modern medicine. I think, in fact, I’ve acknowledged quite a few of them. You, on the other hand, are denying the shortcomings of the CAM industry, which, for the most part, is made up of self-deluded con-artists.
Now let us start on the elective cosmetic surgery for teenagers industry…
“It’ll do better than herceptin and gardasil.
By an order of magnitude or two.”
That’s a pretty big call, don’t you think? I’m not sure if it’s true or not. I have my doubts. Very healthy people still get cervical and breast cancers. I’ll leave that to those who can approach it with evidence. HPV is pretty horrible all by itself, and only the symptoms are treatable, so either way it’s good that Gardasil is there. Herceptin has some drawbacks in terms of the cardio risks it carries with extended use, I know. That was the whole point behind the push for a shorter treatment period, to see if it increase the net survival rate. I’m not clear myself what the net survival rate actually is, and how much breast cancer incidence could be reduced by lifestyle changes alone.
“Now let us start on the elective cosmetic surgery for teenagers industry…”
Why? Are the surgeons using acupuncture needles instead of scalpels now? Why do you keeping avoiding the topic at hand with these very tenuously related observations?
Matty Smith, I respect your views, but to me the world is changing. Ask around and you will see that more healthcare practitioners are using CAM not less, more patients are using CAM not less, GPs are more worried that patients are avoiding telling them about using CAM not less.
Continue the argument with RCTs and meta-analyses by all means, but if a patient finds something is not working for them and you can’t offer anything else, please don’t be surprised if the patient chooses with their feet despite how good your odds ratios are.
And by all means, blame the patients for being gullible, blame CAM practitioners for being schisters, liers and confidence tricksters, whatever you would like to do.
It only alienates you from all the people who choose to practice and use CAM.
Which is a lot a lot of people, from every strata of society and education
Yes, but the reason more healthcare practitioners are using CAM is financial. It’s because it’s cheaper, it’s because it takes pressure off the medical system. In short: It’s a way of hiding healthcare cuts.
I would also suggest: because patients are demanding CAM treatment and not only that patients are willing to pay out of pocket for CAM treatment.
Yes, that’s probably true too. But that extends back to the lack of funding and effectiveness in solid science education at the primary and secondary levels.
When any substantial of people are demanding Reiki for healthcare then something is dramatically wrong with the education system, just as it would be if people were demanding magicians to do their accountancy, or priests to draft the nation’s building codes.
Yeah, look I get it, your position is that people must be gullible, unintelligent or uneducated to choose CAM, whether as patients or practitioners.
I should also stress: I do not blame the patients. That would be an awful thing to do. I do not blame anyone who is a victim of the educational and medical systems’ failures. That would be like blaming someone who could not read for their situation, it would be a total misdirection of blame.
The blame falls with governance, with pharma business models, with bureaucracy, and with CAM practicitioners. The patients and the MDs are the victims here.
“Yeah, look I get it, your position is that people must be gullible”
No.
“unintelligent”
No.
“uneducated”
To a degree, yes.
@Red
I like your clinic, cheap and fast 
@Loota – Beer good
@Matty 8.50 agreed, I have a relative who has had cancer over three times and has always eaten well etc, and is doing well now.
“Oh, now you’re accusing patients who use acupuncture, chiropractic, osteopathy, homeopathy, massage therapy, reiki, tai chi, TCM, yoga, ayurvedic” Those treatments are great!
Though I don’t think I’d have the patience to do Tai Chi 
At any rate, it’s time for bed I think. Take care Loota. I should stress that I very much respect your right to hold your opinions, even if I do not respect all the opinions you hold. I think that’s the honest, and therefore most respectful, way of expressing it.
Night Matty