John Key may not have a plan to catch up with Australia. Gerry Brownlee may not have a plan to achieve the government’s supposed goal of having 90% of our electricity generated from renewable sources. Bill English may not have a plan to pay for the looming baby boomer retirement. Paula Bennett may have no plan for reducing the number of people on benefits. Judith Collins may have no plan to reduce the rate of violent crime in New Zealand… BUT … John Key does have a plan to make himself sound more important. Not content to be merely honourable, he is henceforth to be referred to as the “Right Honourable Prime Minister”. Good to know they’ve got such a clear set of priorities…
Gwwnz. Thank-you. Your knowledge of monarchical history is impressive. I, too find it a fascinating subject because so much of European modern history had it’s roots in monarchical government. Understand the development of one gives a good insight into it’s European contemporaries, and why things happened the way they did in the 20th century.
Lewis Holden isn’t in the Republican Party (which has since been disbanded), they were a group of men’s rights nutters who didn’t give two stuffs about Republicanism…
Lewis Holden is a member of the Republican Movement of Aotearoa New Zealand…
@Jeremy Harris
1. The sexist part of it will be going out of the window very soon I expect, the main issue is all 16 Heads of Government have to agree on corresponding legislation for the same date, The Queen wouldn’t disagree either
does not mean that it will give them an inherent bias, the Queen is Anglican due to her role, Her GG here is Catholic and for 5 or so years She was also Queen of Pakistan amongst many other Muslim Nations she has presided over
2. You say it is racist, the Monarch of NZ is perhaps a mix of very European and quite a few Middle Eastern and Asiatic Races. There is no race requirement to the role, the fact no American or African lineage is within the line with sgnificance is that there was a general trend until about the mid 1800s that these other races were somehow inferior, clearly that ideology has change with the vast majority of the world, the choice of whom the Monarch or Heir marries is no longer in the hands of the Royal family so if HRH William wanted to marry someone of any race or creed he could without question other than from tabloid newspapers- you see Human choice has to come into the role in order to change the already very heavily differentiated heritage of the Monarch and I doubt anyone other than the BNP in England would have a remote issue, Philip is Greco-Danish, outting aside the other bits and pieces of his lineage
3. You should know Charles has said he wants to be Defender of Faith not Defender of the Faith – we kept that title in our Royal Style willingly, that was our choice in the 1970s. Just because the Monarch ancestor decided to set up a church based on divorce and money (much like many modern legal firms)
4. What is wrong with an institution from the middle ages – common law has grown right from the get go, the Magna Carta etc – the fact just because something is old does not mean it does not work.
Think on that old chap aye
@ Jeremy – sorry thought the two were one and the same
BTW, Gwwnz it’s Hanover
@ Mallard – you said “Saying he didn’t ask for it is a nonsense.” Do you have any evidence of this at all – or are you just guessing.
If you are saying its nonsense without any proof – you sir are inferring untruths.
anyway on your points @Jeremy
1. The sexist part of it will be going out of the window very soon I expect Gordon Brown was about to get rid of it, Clegg will push it and NZ and Aussie and Canada all agree to it, the main issue is all 16 Heads of Government have to agree on corresponding legislation for the same date, The Queen wouldn’t disagree either – creating a situation where female can inherit equally is something I truly support
2. You say it is racist, the Monarch of NZ is perhaps a mix of very European and quite a few Middle Eastern and Asiatic Races. There is no race requirement to the role, the fact no American or African lineage is within the line with sgnificance is that there was a general trend until about the mid 1800s that these other races were somehow inferior, clearly that ideology has change with the vast majority of the world, the choice of whom the Monarch or Heir marries is no longer in the hands of the Royal family so if HRH William or his children wanted to marry someone of any race or creed he could without question other than from tabloid newspapers- you see Human choice has to come into the role in order to change the already very heavily differentiated heritage of the Monarch and I doubt anyone other than the BNP in England would have a remote issue, Philip is Greco-Danish, outting aside the other bits and pieces of his lineage. You may be aware there is already an NZer in the Extended Royal family who was born here, Gary Lewis- the husband of the Daughter of the Duke of Gloucester
3. You should know Charles has said he wants to be Defender of Faith not Defender of the Faith – we kept that title in our Royal Style willingly, that was our choice in the 1970s. Just because the Monarch ancestor decided to set up a church based on divorce and money (much like many modern legal firms)
does not mean that it will give them an inherent bias, the Queen is Anglican due to her role, Her GG here is Catholic and for 5 or so years She was also Queen of Pakistan amongst many other Muslim Nations she has presided over
4. What is wrong with an institution from the middle ages – common law has grown right from the get go, the Magna Carta etc – the fact just because something is old does not mean it does not work.
Think on that old chap aye
I’m sure you’ve got a fair rebuttal!
Like Trevor, I cannot believe that the Queen woke up one morning and thought she needed to urgently act on New Zealand’s titles. Even if, as Key and co are pretending, she had initiated the idea, she would have consulted the NZ government. I simply will not believe that this move was not done without at least the implied support of the current administration. However, I think it more likely it was actually sought by the government and this “at the Queen’s suggestion” is pure nonsense.
Frankly, I don’t give a rats fig whether we have such titles or not. Still, it does say something about Mr Key that he evidently does.
Funny how this also somehow becomes a straw poll on republicanism. Notice all the back and forth on the position of the Monarchy. For me, it’s an irrelevancy (the Monarchy) as is the whole antiquated notion of titles. Still, there are plenty of Dr This and Professor That who also cling to antiquated titles.
Move on. But also privately snigger at Key’s apparent vanity. It’s a cringe-inducing that I reckon most people will privately have a snigger about.
One point to clarify on part 2, the world was only properly discovered in a western sense in the 13-15th centuries which kinda also plays a significant role in that regard
Actually it might be worth attempting to steer back to the main topic
Just a thought – John Key is letting his ministers do the work they are meant to be doing so he can free up time that instead of dipping into portfolios that aren’t his, he can make the time to do these little ceremonial things whether the majority of NZ likes them or not that is a matter for election I guess
@ UO
“…privately snigger at Key’s apparent vanity. It’s a cringe-inducing that I reckon most people will privately have a snigger about.”
Hear hear. It’s funny
Anne its not ‘Hanover’, thats an Anglicised version.
Check out maps.google.com, it will show the german version of the name. All the big events use Hannover ( Ocktoberfest)
It’s pretty bad that Parliament made a decision not that long ago then the Queen on the other side of the world basically interferes to undo that….
Republic please…………
@stephensmikm, on your first three points, I’d simply state that there are good deeds and good intentions and they are as far apart as white and black…
The simple fact is currently; a male is preferred over a female, you must be the race (or races) of your ruling parents, and you must be a Protestant… Some good things came out of the middle ages but mostly it was filled with mystical ignorance, death, oppression and disease, the monarchy fits in the latter category…
For me the bottom line is that the three changes you talk about are polishing a turd and even if such changes are made I will still strongly support NZ becoming a Republic… I am a 6th generation NZer, I feel no connection to England or the monarchy and in fact consider it very likely my great, great, great grandfather came here to escape such class distinction, I’m proud of our country’s history of ingenuity and self sufficiency and I wish to exercise what I consider to be my democratic birthright and elect a NZer to be my head of state, no matter what their race, religion or sex, based on merit…
It is a good chance to clean up our messy and dangerous PM and GG arrangements while we’re at it…
The Queen only ever does anything on the advice of her ministers.
She would have been asked to request the titles. Just like she is asked to dissolve Parliament.
@stephensmikm A number of us new MPs talked in our maiden (inaugeral is a better word) speeches about our commitment to NZ having a NZ head of state. That’s a fairly important principle to stand by.
Also, as an aside, I’ve got a bit of Sinn Fein heritage. No apologies for that.
Gwwnz. I do genuinely bow to your superior knowledge. All the books I have read on the subject were in English, so they spelt ‘Hannover/Hanover’ the English way.
There are some clever boffins hanging around here
Trevor Mallarrd said:
“Just for the record the Queen for this title acts on the advice of UK PM who acts following advice of NZ PM. Saying he didn’t ask for it is a nonsense.”
Aaah, got the picture. New Tory PM… new mate of Key’s… both love the title stuff and the status that goes with it. Johnny boy whispers into Tory PM’s ears “I wanna a title I can keep forever…”. Tory PM tells Queen… Queen acts.
No wonder Key was so happy with the Tory win!
Anne this isnt 1910.
The British PM has nothing to do with it.
Key can and does ‘advise ‘ the Queen directly. He has done so the previous situation with knighthoods and hes done it again.
Its just protocol to say the Queen has decided to … whatever.
Look at this actual press release from a few months back
The Queen received the Right Honourable David Cameron this evening and REQUESTED him to form a new administration. The Right Honourable David Cameron accepted Her Majesty’s offer and Kissed Hands upon his appointment as Prime Minister and First Lord of the Treasury.
http://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNewsandDiary/Pressreleases/Pressreleases.aspx
The protocol is always the Queen “requests”
Stephensmikm – totally move to London, you’ll love it. They have horsies and buggies and casteles and everything! Oh, and lots of old codgers walking around as if the world owes them a living cause they’re old and in 1642 someone distantly related to them had enslaved a whole bunch of poor people and called himself an aristocrat. You’ll love it!
Nah, not everything about their (the Windsors et al) history is bad, they were ordained by God! Being inbred, racist or sexist has never been an issue. They didn’t have to be fought to give their people democratic rights, they didn’t allow slavery, or any of that stuff either… Oh wait… Old aint perfect other Ole chappy. And if we don’t have to have, I’d rather leave them in perfect isolation thanks.
BTW – which legislation would you like me to read that has anything to do with the fact Elizabeth Windsor isn’t anything more than an expensive windsock at Heathrow?
All stand!
Oh, I get it , the Queen requested JK to ask for nomenclature change. JK obliged.
How nice.
Thats right PP, the Queen ‘requested ‘ Cameron to become PM.
Winning the election had nothing to do with it.!!!
When hand kisser in chief Key is asked directly about it , watch him dodge and weave without giving a straight answer
@ Chris Hipkins… I think the big push for Republick went the way of most of the social engineering in the 90s. I am stoked there is a Labour Monarchists group on grassroots Labour. And also
to see the pro-Edwardians outnumbered the republiknistas 100 to 1 in Wellington. I like the stability and endurance of ‘those unelecteds half the world away’ that you disparagingly dismiss. In summary… given what you are going through now I doubt there are votes in dissing the Head-o-State. Rt Hon John Key or not Rt Hon John Key..who cares? is it a biggie?
Gwwnz@ 8:52.
It was a tongue in cheek comment! Not serious.
I see Corsby Txtor’s ’social engineering’ meme returning over and over again like the undead.
The Wrong Dishonourable JK more like.
Pedrovsky – no, it’s not a biggie, that’s the point of the original post. Rather than focusing on enhancing their own status, perhaps the National government could spend a bit more time coming up with a plan to deliver that economic ’step-change’ they promised?
Pedrovsky have you even read what Chris wrote:
hes not dissing the Queen ( she is not mentioned)
its this rudderless government that is dissed while they waste their time with more meaningless titles.
The absurdity of the monarchists thinking that it was the Queens idea has all ready been debunked, its just the protocol that uses the words The Queen decides…, or The Queen requests…
No doubt the spin is being fed the suds from Keys spin doctors
It’s a very interesting area to discuss isn’t it…
@Clare Curran – cool, I have Ulster backgrounds in the vestiges of my heritage
@Gipper- too many Lily allen lookalikes – try reading the ol’ Constitution Act 1986, the Amendment Act on Oaths and the Submissions around those pieces of legislation perhaps, Prof Joseph seems to have written some interesting things to regard on this, as has Palmer and his namesake.
The Way I’m looking at this is that it seems whenever a National Government will occur knighthoods and pomp and old somewhat outdated ceremonie swill come at an expense will come, whenever Labour Governments will come from now on silly school badgesque name suffixes will come…also at an expense due to the new minting of new medals
Personally I feel in favour over the knighthood, the right hon and so on because it’s frank and straight forward that society believes that person earnt it – NZ isn’t the UK where honours above OBE rank have become a farce, only for celebs, Judges and politicians, we actually reward those who we want to and I just cannot think saying that someone is a PCNZ does that. Giving them that title ‘Sir’ , The Hon. shows that NZ is in favour of them, that they have been vetted and proofed and found to be a worthy asset to NZ…even the Right Hon. Winston Peters.
stephensmikm, missing the old class division are you.
The old school tie, the right clubs. Nothing like adding a bit of nonsense to your name to show how much better you are than others. Plus it gets the seat upgrades, the faster service in a restaurant.
“everybody calls me Dame Kiri…”
Catching up with Australia…. not bloody likely when we are looking backwards.
Of course Australia hasn’t bothered with knights and dames for 30 years ( apart from Jo in Queensland).
However Key wants to look to ….. the Caribbean
well GWWNZ if you like badges and suffixes then cool beans! perhaps a tie and blazer should be sent so that they can pin them all on
and generally, the people NZ gives the “nonsense” too can already get faster service in a restaurant
Its inefficient and will decrease our productivity.
Instead of saying JK with a sneer it will have to be Rt Hon sneer JK sneer.
I prefer to give respect to those who have earned it.
The Queen remains fairly static and apart from being a symbol representing a fairly rotten history and her massive personal treasure of inherited plunder, many feel great fawning to her. It is all fairly minor stuff to the average NZder.
I shudder to think what political contrivance might replace her.
I say let alone wots not broke.
JK sneer will want a knighthood also. Who could he get to ask for that request.
“I cannot tell a lie ” – JK (sneer)
Love the monarchy
Hate the idea of a republic 
But the most laughable thing is such a dishonourable profession (worse than used car salesmen) giving out the title of honourable at all
- Don’t kill me I’m very fond of you Labour pollies
“Love the monarchy Hate the idea of a republic ”
Spud you’ve shown yourself quite willing to enter into sicophantic hero worship on this site so that doesn’t really suprise me…
So nothing of any significance then? ha ha… look, let it go ole chum… its time to let the monarchy slip right to sleepies, theyre obscure and quite strange. Their lives of grace and favour have no place here.
Not sicophantic
– I am a Labour fan though 
Aw Gipper – that’s the good thing, we don’t have to support them (financially) but we do get to enjoy them
We do support them financially, we spent (from memory) $44,000,000 on the GG last year…
Better the GG that you know than the poser you don’t
JMH FYI that estimate way out by a full 5.8x
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1005/S00221.htm
It’s ‘only’ $7.6M not $44.0M
Did you include the cost of the renovations to GG houses in both Auckland and Wellington..?
Ahhhh good point…that will bump the figures up a bit.
I always thought ‘Right Honourable’ was used only for EX PM’s?
Trevor wrote “Just for the record the Queen for this title acts on the advice of UK PM who acts following advice of NZ PM. Saying he didn’t ask for it is a nonsense.”
Of course what he said was he was contacted by the Queen or her advisor a few months ago, and he would have been, of course a few months before that his office contacted the UK PM’s office who contacted the Queen… Mr Key is beginning to make Clintons “it depends on what you mean by “it” ” look like childs play
Sycophantic right wingers are amusing. Does John Key walk on water?
The Queen acts on the advice of the Prime Minister. His, albeit tacit support of the idea to an adviser a few months ago is in effect advise from the PM to HM ER. He wanted the pomp, he wanted the distinction between him and his Cabinet colleagues.
I wonder how Bill English feels about it? Probably wants a new title too.
Titles are pompous, and I see no reason why they should be held for life.
Prince William paid for the entire cost of his visit, or did we stump up for dinners and transport an police and stuff?
“ohn Key is letting his ministers do the work they are meant to be doing so he can free up time that instead of dipping into portfolios that aren’t his”
I’m wondering where you have been, Mr Key has jumped into employment, education, Social Development, Mining, Transport, Foreign Affairs… at one point he seemed to make all the big announcements, except the UN Declaration on Aboriginal Rights.
“social engineering” AGAIN, ok, this time someone has used it in relation to wanting to stop paying lip service to a figurehead who doesn’t actually make any meaningful decisions relating to our country. She doesnt make decisions that matter to our society, why pretend she does?
Clare Curren: “Also, as an aside, I’ve got a bit of Sinn Fein heritage. No apologies for that.” Is that right? And what is ‘Sinn Fein’ heritage then?
Being brilliantly good at downing a Guinness I bet
Or funding the IRA Loota.
Go the Irish, or else!
!
The USA funded Osama Bin Laden Simon, now we are fighting to clean up the mess.