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	<title>Comments on: Brownlee bagged</title>
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	<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/</link>
	<description>A blog written by Labour MPs</description>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-87446</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-87446</guid>
		<description>Loota
Thanks for taking me up on that.

The problem is we are geared to growth as that is what the western economic mess is based on with credit extended to facilitate that and depend on that.

Re-gearing towards a sustainable community servicing of needs will leave out the large parasitic overload we now carry.

Presently we feed the parasites and starve ourselves.

Population growth requires expansion of goods supply, housing, credit and bank activity, food production, education, hospitals and health care provisions, housing, jobs opportunities, police, doctors and so on. 
 
Infrastructure is expensive in NZ and so our standard of living drops unless we borrow and that can only work short term.  

Borrowing is not the only answer to a Govt needing money for infrastructure.   Privatisation of infrastructure makes the problem worse.

Profit in some sectors is very healthy yet jobs are not there for so  many either.

We import food, clothing, furnishings. building materials, vehicles and even trains   that we once supplied locally.  There is no control over this importation which has killed out employment.

The big red shed and others get rich, banks of course ever do well and lend money in excess of what they hold to make continuing fat profits.

This situation is sacred to present time Govts and the strangle hold on NZ is allowed by apathetic public and mind washing press.

We may complain about lack of employment but NZ voted for it.

It is much cheaper not to grow your population.    Resources and the things we love about the country are less likely to be alienated from us.

Increasing population by natural means is slow process particularly with an educated mass.   

40 hours work in a modern setting including automation, a myriad of mechanical and electronic devices that minimise worker time,  seems archaic. 

Vast amounts of time and resources are spent creating and shuffling paper across desk through out the land.

Less working hours and sharing opportunity for more workers is a simple concept as one solution.

Renumeration is the other problem.   So much is skimmed off to service finance without any redress to that absorption of community wealth. A large amount of money is spent in buying overseas.

High levels of profit have less taxation than what is needed so government reduce its role as employer.  We get less services.

There have been many laws passed around the globe at various times to put limits on the parasitic accumulation of societies money into the hands of such institutions.

Masking the problem cannot be a sustainable option in the long run.
A stadium is a one off with little related employment after it is built.  A lot of money is spent in its construction but much of that goes to supply of goods, of which imports are a part.

We are not the only country to feel the pinch after relying on the madness we have flowed with.

Serious damage to our biosphere will impinge on our economies to a greater extent before too long.  
World mineral resources have estimated limits that will be aggravated by out ballooning consumption.  We have been rich and wasteful users of resources and other countries will compete increase competition with us for them.

Energy forms and resources for transport are very likely to stem our exports and imports.

Water is becoming an issue for production.

The list goes on and so does the denial of need for change.

If NZ doesn&#039;t react to the evidence before it then troubles found to day will be minuscule to what lies ahead.

Increasing population will only magnify the problems.

I will post the following coming TV interview again:

&quot;[ “In Conversation” discusses the fruits of human folly.

If you think that climate change is the only big problem on the horizon then you haven’t really been listening.  Dr. John Robinson is this week’s guests on “In Conversation with Noel Cheer” on Triangle/Stratos Television.  Matter-of-fact, cautionary but not alarmist, John Robinson sets the facts before us.

While climate change is ‘flavour of the month’, we face a range of other potentially serious developments ranging from water and oil drying up to the melt-down of the ice-caps and the world economic order. 

Triangle Television, Auckland: (UHF Channels 41, 42 and 52) Wednesday July 28, 7:00pm

Stratos Television, nationwide: Monday August 2 at 8:30pm
Stratos is found on the satellite platforms Sky Digital Channel 89 and Freeview Digital (but not HD) Channel 21.
Stratos is also found on Telstraclear Cable Channel 89 in Wellington, Kapiti and Christchurch and on the streaming video website ziln.co.nz ]&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Loota<br />
Thanks for taking me up on that.</p>
<p>The problem is we are geared to growth as that is what the western economic mess is based on with credit extended to facilitate that and depend on that.</p>
<p>Re-gearing towards a sustainable community servicing of needs will leave out the large parasitic overload we now carry.</p>
<p>Presently we feed the parasites and starve ourselves.</p>
<p>Population growth requires expansion of goods supply, housing, credit and bank activity, food production, education, hospitals and health care provisions, housing, jobs opportunities, police, doctors and so on. </p>
<p>Infrastructure is expensive in NZ and so our standard of living drops unless we borrow and that can only work short term.  </p>
<p>Borrowing is not the only answer to a Govt needing money for infrastructure.   Privatisation of infrastructure makes the problem worse.</p>
<p>Profit in some sectors is very healthy yet jobs are not there for so  many either.</p>
<p>We import food, clothing, furnishings. building materials, vehicles and even trains   that we once supplied locally.  There is no control over this importation which has killed out employment.</p>
<p>The big red shed and others get rich, banks of course ever do well and lend money in excess of what they hold to make continuing fat profits.</p>
<p>This situation is sacred to present time Govts and the strangle hold on NZ is allowed by apathetic public and mind washing press.</p>
<p>We may complain about lack of employment but NZ voted for it.</p>
<p>It is much cheaper not to grow your population.    Resources and the things we love about the country are less likely to be alienated from us.</p>
<p>Increasing population by natural means is slow process particularly with an educated mass.   </p>
<p>40 hours work in a modern setting including automation, a myriad of mechanical and electronic devices that minimise worker time,  seems archaic. </p>
<p>Vast amounts of time and resources are spent creating and shuffling paper across desk through out the land.</p>
<p>Less working hours and sharing opportunity for more workers is a simple concept as one solution.</p>
<p>Renumeration is the other problem.   So much is skimmed off to service finance without any redress to that absorption of community wealth. A large amount of money is spent in buying overseas.</p>
<p>High levels of profit have less taxation than what is needed so government reduce its role as employer.  We get less services.</p>
<p>There have been many laws passed around the globe at various times to put limits on the parasitic accumulation of societies money into the hands of such institutions.</p>
<p>Masking the problem cannot be a sustainable option in the long run.<br />
A stadium is a one off with little related employment after it is built.  A lot of money is spent in its construction but much of that goes to supply of goods, of which imports are a part.</p>
<p>We are not the only country to feel the pinch after relying on the madness we have flowed with.</p>
<p>Serious damage to our biosphere will impinge on our economies to a greater extent before too long.<br />
World mineral resources have estimated limits that will be aggravated by out ballooning consumption.  We have been rich and wasteful users of resources and other countries will compete increase competition with us for them.</p>
<p>Energy forms and resources for transport are very likely to stem our exports and imports.</p>
<p>Water is becoming an issue for production.</p>
<p>The list goes on and so does the denial of need for change.</p>
<p>If NZ doesn&#8217;t react to the evidence before it then troubles found to day will be minuscule to what lies ahead.</p>
<p>Increasing population will only magnify the problems.</p>
<p>I will post the following coming TV interview again:</p>
<p>&#8220;[ “In Conversation” discusses the fruits of human folly.</p>
<p>If you think that climate change is the only big problem on the horizon then you haven’t really been listening.  Dr. John Robinson is this week’s guests on “In Conversation with Noel Cheer” on Triangle/Stratos Television.  Matter-of-fact, cautionary but not alarmist, John Robinson sets the facts before us.</p>
<p>While climate change is ‘flavour of the month’, we face a range of other potentially serious developments ranging from water and oil drying up to the melt-down of the ice-caps and the world economic order. </p>
<p>Triangle Television, Auckland: (UHF Channels 41, 42 and 52) Wednesday July 28, 7:00pm</p>
<p>Stratos Television, nationwide: Monday August 2 at 8:30pm<br />
Stratos is found on the satellite platforms Sky Digital Channel 89 and Freeview Digital (but not HD) Channel 21.<br />
Stratos is also found on Telstraclear Cable Channel 89 in Wellington, Kapiti and Christchurch and on the streaming video website ziln.co.nz ]&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Loota</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-87375</link>
		<dc:creator>Loota</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-87375</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The wage gap happened years ago. Our dollars are different and I hope remain so. Our cost of living is different as well.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; doing quite well in relation to the Aussies right up to the 1980&#039;s. Especially since they got the jump on us in terms of developing farming, trade etc. as we are a younger country.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you want to be an Ozzie save up the fare.

Another benefit for NZ.

A static population has many benefits including economic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dunedin has a static population and it is not at all good for this city. The Dunedin population barely grown one iota since 1976/1981.

Young people have nowhere to go job-wise, many of the senior well paying jobs e.g. at the uni, DHB or City Council are held by people who will only leave them when they leave feet first, and every year 10,000 educated highly skilled grads leave this town and never come back - there simply are not the jobs or entrepreneurial opportunities here to keep people even if they want to stay. 

This city just haemorrhages talent and skills, loses skilled high paying jobs on a regular basis, and a lot of people seem very complacent about it.

But we will soon have a brand new $250M stadium which will employ some groundskeepers, barristas and event organisers. Thankgoodness for that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The wage gap happened years ago. Our dollars are different and I hope remain so. Our cost of living is different as well.</p></blockquote>
<p>We <i>were</i> doing quite well in relation to the Aussies right up to the 1980&#8217;s. Especially since they got the jump on us in terms of developing farming, trade etc. as we are a younger country.</p>
<blockquote><p>If you want to be an Ozzie save up the fare.</p>
<p>Another benefit for NZ.</p>
<p>A static population has many benefits including economic.</p></blockquote>
<p>Dunedin has a static population and it is not at all good for this city. The Dunedin population barely grown one iota since 1976/1981.</p>
<p>Young people have nowhere to go job-wise, many of the senior well paying jobs e.g. at the uni, DHB or City Council are held by people who will only leave them when they leave feet first, and every year 10,000 educated highly skilled grads leave this town and never come back &#8211; there simply are not the jobs or entrepreneurial opportunities here to keep people even if they want to stay. </p>
<p>This city just haemorrhages talent and skills, loses skilled high paying jobs on a regular basis, and a lot of people seem very complacent about it.</p>
<p>But we will soon have a brand new $250M stadium which will employ some groundskeepers, barristas and event organisers. Thankgoodness for that</p>
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		<title>By: John W</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-87371</link>
		<dc:creator>John W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-87371</guid>
		<description>The wage gap happened years ago.  Our dollars are different and I hope remain so.  Our cost of living is different as well.

Just another Nact distraction as well as being a disguised fear campaign. 

If you want to be an Ozzie save up the fare.

Another benefit for NZ.

A static population has many benefits including economic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wage gap happened years ago.  Our dollars are different and I hope remain so.  Our cost of living is different as well.</p>
<p>Just another Nact distraction as well as being a disguised fear campaign. </p>
<p>If you want to be an Ozzie save up the fare.</p>
<p>Another benefit for NZ.</p>
<p>A static population has many benefits including economic.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86757</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86757</guid>
		<description>@ MikeG.  Sorry - I stand corrected - the formatting threw me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ MikeG.  Sorry &#8211; I stand corrected &#8211; the formatting threw me.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracey</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86749</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86749</guid>
		<description>Monty, do you really believe the wage gap will fall between the two nations? I still wonder if it&#039;s a worthy goal anyway, not a falling wage gap but the comparisson in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monty, do you really believe the wage gap will fall between the two nations? I still wonder if it&#8217;s a worthy goal anyway, not a falling wage gap but the comparisson in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeG</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86744</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86744</guid>
		<description>Chris - try clicking on the big red words above that say &#039;The wage gap&#039; - I think that you&#039;ll find you&#039;ll end up at Farrar&#039;s place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8211; try clicking on the big red words above that say &#8216;The wage gap&#8217; &#8211; I think that you&#8217;ll find you&#8217;ll end up at Farrar&#8217;s place.</p>
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		<title>By: StephenR</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86743</link>
		<dc:creator>StephenR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 02:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86743</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;trust Monty to be first off the blocks trying to defend the indefensible! &lt;/i&gt;

Well give him some credit for not trying to defend Brownlee :-D He probably has a point about the tradeables recession though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>trust Monty to be first off the blocks trying to defend the indefensible! </i></p>
<p>Well give him some credit for not trying to defend Brownlee <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' />  He probably has a point about the tradeables recession though.</p>
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		<title>By: Spud</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86739</link>
		<dc:creator>Spud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86739</guid>
		<description>8O wow :-D Simon has written a libretto! :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt='8O' class='wp-smiley' /> wow <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' />  Simon has written a libretto! <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86733</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86733</guid>
		<description>Blog etiquette has you at least linking to the post - not simply cut / pasting and putting in your format (colours etc)

You will note that other blogs link to red alert - why wont you do it back?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blog etiquette has you at least linking to the post &#8211; not simply cut / pasting and putting in your format (colours etc)</p>
<p>You will note that other blogs link to red alert &#8211; why wont you do it back?</p>
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		<title>By: jennifer</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/07/29/brownlee-bagged/comment-page-1/#comment-86732</link>
		<dc:creator>jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=18201#comment-86732</guid>
		<description>I see that big Gerry put a $28 roadside snack on his taxpayer credit card while &#039;en-route to Thames&#039;. How much does he get paid, again? Something like 6 grand a week? Yet he expects the taxpayer to keep up his sustenance while lounging in the back of the limo on a road trip to Thames. After eating a full &#039;eggs benedict&#039; breakfast, also on the taxpayer, a few hours earlier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that big Gerry put a $28 roadside snack on his taxpayer credit card while &#8216;en-route to Thames&#8217;. How much does he get paid, again? Something like 6 grand a week? Yet he expects the taxpayer to keep up his sustenance while lounging in the back of the limo on a road trip to Thames. After eating a full &#8216;eggs benedict&#8217; breakfast, also on the taxpayer, a few hours earlier.</p>
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