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Red Alert
Wednesday poll – Vote stripping to lead to drop in crime?
Posted by Kelvin Davis on July 14th, 2010 Loading ...
Vote stripping is a bleepin crime, the real crooks are the pollies!
Aren’t there more important things he could be working on, and parliament could spend time on?
My step mother has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy (yes this is on topic). My father and she have been housebound for the entire duration because of a fear of egtting colds or flu from other people. he is VERY conservative, ACT even. I saw him two days ago and he said he sees prison in an entirely new way. He said he and his wife began to go stir crazy, but could get out from time to time, to doctor, he to markets for food etc BUT he said it was the feeling that they really couldnt do what they wanted to…
He said, he cannot imagine what it is like to be told when to get up, what to eat and when, to not get fresh air if he wanted it, to walk, to pee in the room he sleeps in and so on. He now believes that prison, because it deprives basic freedom must be dreadful. We agreed that some people may thrive there and so on, but this was a 3 strikes man, an hang em high man, he said he now sees that seemingly simple thing of loss of freedom is bad enough.
Yep! That’s the object of the exercise Tracey. We unfortunately have people amongst us who do not want to be members of our society and contribute accordingly. So we remove from them the right to freedom for the protection of others. In some cultures they would lose their life, as the ultimate extraction of justice, but we somehow manage to recognise that there may be something salvageable in some offenders, and give them a chance for rehabilitation back into society. If criminals remove from themselves the responsibility they owe society, they remove from themselves the right to vote for that society’s leaders.
Hope your mother’s treatment is successful and she is soon restored to full health. It must be hard for both of them.
Almost 1/8 believe it will – the big question now is who were the 6 who voted yes? and what alternate universe are they living in!
I don’t see how vote stripping would lead to less crime. I doubt thugs are gonna be about to beat the crap out of someone and then stop because someone told them they couldn’t vote if they got done for it. I’m pretty sure there would be other slightly more effective ways to reduce crime, but definitely not that!
Richard, the point is removing the vote from them wont actualy change the numbe rof victims or criminals, so really let’s focus on some othe rmore important stuff FIRST. This is just more populist “easy” stuff.
Seems no one got a copy of Power’s 2006 speech about doing the hard stuff in this area and not being worried about being labelled soft on crime because of it
Thanks for your kind thoughts Richard, my own mother died from cancer when I was 23. Outlook is not good for Dad’s wife
@Tracey – I wish her a speedy recovery
@Tracey – I’m sorry, I saw your last comment after I hit submit.
To shed some light on the issue, the law as it stands allows prisoners serving minor sentences to vote; any sentence longer than that, and that right is forfeited.
Yeah, the petty crims should be able to vote, they are already being punished by being in the slammer – this idea is pointless and vindictive!
Deepred, that was my recollection, but I assumed it had changed because of this debate. It is just more petty point scoring over “law and order”.
Thanks spud
@ Spud petty crims will still be able to vote. Its the serious baddies that have decided to opt out of society who lose the vote. And fair enough – after all they choose that life.
Will it impact their behavior (in either direction) – no.
Most in prison have much larger problems than voting or not. Who is this Bill for? For the general population: Tough on Crime.
I had 8 people in my living room, who were scathing about the “hotel” lives of prisoners. As a lone voice I said that it is the loss of freedom that is the issue, not flat-screen TVs. Tracey eloquently puts it right on target. Will the Bill reduce crime? Hardly.
“Now if I go ahead and knock over this shop, I won’t get caught but if I did get caught I would lose my vote in prison. Damn! OK. I’m off home instead. Bummer!”
@Chris – even you don’t think that this will impact on their behaviour, so what’s the bleepin point?
Really they should just leave well enough alone, I think voting is good for crims it gets them thinking about the society they live in. 
Oh yeah, and it’s undemocratic for the government to decide that some votes are more worthy than others and then take it away!
– just as bad as a poll tax! 
in the US they not only deny prisoners the vote but many ex-cons. Plus, in states where the Republicans decide who gets the contract to compile the electoral roll, anyone whose name is similar to that of an ex-con. Most of these people are black. If you didn’t know better, you’d swear it was a plan to deprive black American men of the vote…
I personally think that vote stripping should only apply to murderers.
Nor criminal behaviour change for the better because of proposals to give the police easier access to guns…
That should be:
Nor *will* criminal behaviour change for the better because of proposals to give the police easier access to guns…
@dorothy – agreed
what a stupid question – of course it will not – and I do not think that is the intent. It is because prisoners are scum and have committed a crime for which they must pay a debt to society. Part of that debt is their loss of freedom and the right to participate in democracy. (besides the prisoners are hardly likely to vote for the Nats anyway – more likely a labour or Greenie voter.
So you agree Monty that it is just about sticking the boot in further!
Now this really makes me wounder how many prisoners are in actual fact Labour voters?
Criminals are supposed to come from or be in the lower income families, which I would of thought would lean more towards a Labour vote than a National one.
I agree that murderers, rapists, home invaders, fraudsters, thieves, drug dealers who have no respect for our fellow citizens should have no right to decide on who should form our government. As I said they are scum and their actions mean they have to pay their debt to society and voting is a right they should never have had. I very happy for the boot to be put in further.
We’ll agree to disagree Monty, I think prison is enough.
What Spud said
“murderers, rapists, home invaders, fraudsters, thieves, drug dealers who have no respect for our fellow citizens should have no right to decide on who should form our government. As I said they are scum and their actions mean they have to pay their debt to society”
You must be outraged then at John Key agreeing to speak to people and push along the attempt to make a murderer more comfortable?
@ Monty this Bill is not about “murderers, rapists, home invaders, fraudsters, thieves, drug dealers who have no respect for our fellow citizens” – they already lose the right to vote. This Bill is about people serving sentences of less than three years (I think! It’s a minimal amount though). That could be a fine defaulter for all we know!
This Bill is damaging to our democracy and reduces the value of democracy for all of us. It does this by greatly reducing the number of people who are allowed to participate in the processes of Govt, reducing the legitimacy of those processes and marginalising further those on the edges of normal society. As you said Nicola, these people may be in prison on election day for very minor crimes and a one month sentence, but if the timing is out they lose the right to vote for another 3 years.
Daft.
Removing the right of a NZ citizen to vote?
Irrelevant of who they are or what they have done they are still a NZ citizen.
If we go down this track what next. Beneficiarys? a good case could be made for not allowing beneficiarys the right to vote as well.
If we are going to efectively remove their citizen ship, why not go the whole hog and make them outside the law.
“what next. Beneficiarys” – don’t give them ideas
They shouldn’t be allowed to take away their human rights, which include the right to vote!
Margaret Thatcher probably would have removed the beneficiary’s right to vote if given half the chance. And that of the entire working class come to think of it.