TOOTH ACHES: Trips to the Dentist can cause more pain in the pocket than in the mouth. Do we ignore our oral health? Is going to the dentist too expensive? Is it time for the Government to provide assistance for dental care? And do we need to make sure all of our water is Fluoridated?
WHALE TALES: Peter Bethune is on trial in Japan accused of charges related to the incident between his powerboat, the Ady Gil, and a Japanese Whaling ship. And on Wednesday, Greenpeace is delivering a petition to Parliament in support of Saving the Whales. What should be our official position be on Whaling? And can the Government do anything to help Peter Bethune in his defence.
LIVE pub politics from the Backbencher Pub: Wednesday, 2ND of June at 9pm, drinking from about 7pm. The Panel: ACT MP John Boscawen, Progressive Party Leader Jim Anderton, Labour MP David Shearer, and National MP Nicky Wagner.
It IS strange that dentistry isn’t subsidised – not that i necessarily want it to be, but wouldn’t seem like that much of a stretch to do so.
Yay Super Jim and David Shearer!
Fluoridation causes fluorosis and destroys the bones of the elderly, also a neurotoxin!
Plus I’ve read that the fluoride that they put into water supplies often isn’t the same kind that helps teeth anyway!
We get enough in our tooth paste
Bleep Yeah
the dentist is too expensive 
I know someone who once put up with over three years of chronic, debilitating infections in the chest that were caused by a cavity that couldn’t afford to get fixed. 
The government needs to step up and make sure that the protest dude gets a fair trial!
The government needs to stay out of political interference in Japan’s legal processes. There are plenty of arguments about what taxpayers money should and shouldn’t be used for and one of the non-uses is a get out of jail free card for this guy who clearly knew the consequences of his action. Ignorance is no defense in law.
No, I don’t believe he knew the consequences he was acting in the moment. I also believe that he didn’t assault anyone. And I fear that he isn’t getting a fair trial. The government need to grow a pair and help him!
You say “Is it time for the Government to provide assistance for dental care?”
In case you had not noticed there is already a $240m per week deficit – it would be so much worse if the Government made more help available. Again this is a classic case of Labour not doing anything about it for 9 years and then from the luxurary of the opposition benches promote this idea.
In case you had forgotten, everything must be paid for. To date dental treatment in NZ has worked fine without too much Government interference (Dental Treatment in schools is a positive thing).
In respect of Pirates boarding Japanese boats – well you break the law you pay the price – this was a publicity stunt and now he can pay the price. I have no care for the verdict either way. More importantly we do not want japan interfering in our legal system – we should stay out of theirs.
He is not a pirate, pirates are theives – so therefore those whalers are the pirates!
Labour had nine years to clean up the mess that National made. They were nine glorius years
I miss them
“n case you had not noticed there is already a $240m per week deficit – it would be so much worse if the Government made more help available” Monty
You really are a contradictory fellow.
“In case you had forgotten, everything must be paid for”
Yea that’s why they have borrowed an extra $465m just to fund the tax cuts, and let’s not kid ourselves some of that $240m per week is also funding those tax cuts. Monty if Labour had given us this Budget at any stage of their reign YOU would have accused them of a giant lolly scramble designed to buy their way to the next election.
Spud, what makes you think he’s not going to get a fair trial? Do you think he should be tried in NZ instead? Just because the Japanese legal system is different to our adversarial system , it does not mean it will unjustly crucify him. And what do you think the government should do? Send in the SAS maybe?
I am in favour of a 20-33% subsidy of Dental work , it’s silly to give people support right up until they are 18 and then start charging 1000$ for a couple of enamel fillings…and not fair…
Oh inregards to the Bethune Saga all I can say is his defence lawyers are crap…really crap…”I didn’t think the acid would harm anyone’ really! the very term acid implies harm of some sort …
Has ipredict got a bet on his sentence yet I wanna put one down for 4 years…rightly deserved too
@Simon – The Japanese feel very strongly about their whale meat. They are already whaling under the lie of research and their boat rammed the protest dude’s teeny tiny hero boat.
Given their lack of ethics on whaling and that they probably detest the protestors I am sure that they are wishing to make an example of him. On that basis I fear that he won’t get a fair trial.
I think the government should step in and pay his legal fees and advocate for him with the Japanese government!
@stephensmikm – so we should outlaw vinegar and vitamin C? How about aspirin, or any of the zillions of food products with citric acid in?
As to dentisty, given our generally low wages, absolutely yes it is too expensive. Not just dentistry in fact – almost all medical costs are disproportionate. I have 6 or so broken teeth but can’t afford to fix them. A patch up job (not a long-term proper fix) for me was quoted as a few thousand, a bit more for my partner. We are both out of work, but in the last month I have had to spend on medical as follows: $69 for a consultation and treatment for one child, $45 consult and $34 prescription fee for me, $150 dentistry charges for an extraction for my partner, $35 prescription fee for antibiotics for her, and tonight another $40 prescription costs for the other child. (To be fair, the hospital consultation for that was free, even if we had to wait months to get to see someone). Yes this is with a community services card.
A few months ago a simple consultation with a dermatologist plus a small bottle of stuff cost me the best part of $400. (No CS card then but I doubt it would have made any difference). And the treatment didn’t actually help! The market solution isn’t working here.
And I should point out to anyone who believes Paula’s view about the “dream being over” for us bludger types (unlikely here, I guess, but you never know) – the amount we receive from WINZ barely covers the mortgage and food each week, let alone basic insurances, petrol, school costs (we do not have a free education system), rates and other sundry taxes, electricity and water, car servicing, and all of the other necessary costs of living. And, apparently we have been naughty and not declared income earned two weeks ago for some relief teaching my partner did (never mind we won’t see a cent of it for another two weeks owing to a payroll snafu by MoE), so now WINZ think we have been overpaid and we have to pay back a debt to them. My fault for assuming they operated on a cash basis rather than an accrual basis, but hey, we’re living the dream, right?
Sorry, having a bit of a rant unrelated to the main topic. Will shut up now.
Sorry to hear that.
@rainman
I was meaning more in the actual wholesale form – as citric acid that you can buy on the shelf it can be pretty nasty stuff if you leave it on your skin or get it in someone’s eye – I wasn’t referring to mixtured products
Considering the last Dentist Bill cost $613- 1 filling, 2 changes from metal to cermaic and a topup of some plastic on a small nick – luckily paid for by ol’ Mumsie, but it got rid of those nasty metal things – it’s a shame the govt doesn’t subsidize aesthetic denture work in children- those metal filaments are a bit of a pain after looking at mumsie’s 40 year old ones… Honestly, considering the current prices I was quite surprised about the value but then again those dentists got a lot of work from us over the years…
As to medical costs, last time I went to the Clinic it cost around 120 because it was the after hours and ended up with a diagnosis that it was a sniffle …felt almost gutted considering the cost in regards to a person saying you’re fine but there you are…
I’m interested about the prescription charges, I haven’t had to deal with a serious illness or problem for a while so the last ones I saw would have been from my considerably younger brother suggested a very minimal cost for things like asthma inhalers and baby paracetemol, I’m guessing what you had to get wasn’t necessarily a generally prescribed item.. because I’m am definitely sure the cost on those prescriptions were in the 0.00 not the 00.00 department… – Maybe you were swindled but your costs don’t sound right unless you were at an after hours…
Wasn’t after hours, I have a child who has allergic reactions to most antibiotics, the only one he can take isn’t subsidised at all. And he has a perforated eardrum so I kinda want to see that fixed – I’ll go without eating before I choose not to treat his medical issues. (Don’t worry, though, I’m not starving…) My script was a 3 month supply of anti-inflams, painkillers, and pills to protect my gut from the other pills
, so I suppose that was only $12 a month in equivalent terms. The other script was for my partner (antibiotics too, I think) but I don’t know the selection criteria for the specific medication – assume it was also unsubsidised.
In my experience prescription fees are only low for kids and for very few common meds. Are they regulated at all, I wonder, or set by the market? Might need to shift to a more downmarket pharmacy…
well- 12$ a month isn’t too bad considering the unsubsidized nature of it…paying it all at once is a bit of a argh but down here in cantab a few people have defaulte don their bills – specially in the dentistry department so it’s no wonder the cash needs to all at once up front – even our long time used Dentist group needs a good size already paid off and a long term of use before they’ll trust some one to pay in instalments without running off..
There is a whole sale cost involved with the pharmacists getting the chemicals and medications as well as taking into into account their store costs and licence fees they’ll add their own subjective cost dependant on the amount of product they have been directed to give – there would be a different cost between 1% and 5% solutions etc, pharmacies located at govt hospitals and regional clinics are more likely to be cheaper becuase the inhouse costs are already covered to an extant but also far more likely to be overwhelmed with orders for prescriptions from their own hospital and hospital out patients let alone randoms coming off the street…it is a bit of a dilemma and don’t think there is a readily available solution except general subsidies which could cost a hell of a lot to the taxpayer at large considering the company fees for some products ..
No, the last $40 was the unsubsidised one, my $34 for 3 months supply was nothing special pharma-wise. Mostly generics, as it happens.
My point is either we are being robbed by dentists, doctors, specialists, surgeons, and overseas pharma companies, or we need much higher wages to keep up with their “reasonable” costs. A back-of-the-envelope calculation for the dermatologist I saw (being pessimistic about the number of patients she can see in a day, even) has her making nearly $1m a year. Justifiable?
The free market does not do a good job of handling medicine. Information asymmetry causes most of the problems, but good old fashioned greed is there too, I’m sure – at the front line and in the suppliers of fancy machines, or fancy offices.
So Spud, under your reckoning if an NZ citizen is accused of a crime overseas, say drug trafficking or murder, then the taxpayer should fund their defense?
Do you think that a Japanese citizen would get a fair trial in NZ if arrested for boarding an NZ fishing vessel because he didn’t like the amount of Hoki being fished?
Simon, the NZ Govt should speak up if that NZ citizen’s treatment is unduly harsh or without adequate protection and respect for transparent due process.
But it’s not for the government to interfere and pass an arrogant judgment on Japan’s legal system.
The protest dude is not a murderer nor a drug traffiker
The poor guy was just trying to save whales.
Whether he is a protester that broke laws, threw acid at people and tried to assault, sorry, ‘citizens arrest’ a ship captain or murdered 20 people, that doesn’t matter Spud. You’ve suggested we should foot the bill for the actions of kiwis committing criminal offenses abroad. Protesting does not give you a moral high ground to break the law and get away with it.
He did his thing at sea, a long, long way from Japan. It wasn’t in Japanese territory, so he should’ve been rescued off their boat before he was hauled to Japan. He could’ve been tried here.
The guy is a hero, so yes we should pay!
If he blew up the boat and killed all the crew, all in the name of a protest, should we pay for your hero?
If he did this stuff in NZ waters he would be prosecuted just as them , there would be no substantive argument of justification or necessity – the judge would probably direct the jury (if he got one) to be very restrictive in their judgement …here he would be sentenced to around 2years for his crimes and probably face a civil court court action as well – frankly he’s lucky he’s not being taken to civil court over there as well!
He didn’t blow up the boat! They rammed him.
Yes we should pay, and I’d happily donate to any fundraiser for him.
“He didn’t blow up the boat! They rammed him.” – the defense of provocation has been removed in NZ law Spud.
He’s innocent and provocation should never have been removed, don’t want to debate that though.
Bethune is an idiot who should never have been in Southern Ocean waters in such a stupid boat. If he got in the way of a whaler then tough luck. He deserves all he gets. Sea Shepherd are a bunch of crooks too who think the world owes them some sort of following. Interfering in a sovereign nation’s right to do something is just arrogant stupidity.
I don’t agree with whaling, but there are better, more civilised ways of doing things that Sea Shepherd and idiot Bethune think they are entitled to. I wouldn’t give one penny in support of such fools.
Bethune is an idiot and a pirate. The video clearly shows the Ady Gil accelerating into the Jap boat and Sea Shepherd are responsible for the sinking of and damage to a number of other ships. Even Greenpeace will have nothing to do with these dickheads. I am picking he will get 3 to 5 years. Good job.
And once the gummint starts paying for those horrendous dentist bills will they look at vet bills too? The gummint has heaps of bucks after all.
And I should point out to anyone who believes Paula’s view about the “dream being over” for us bludger types (unlikely here, I guess, but you never know)
Um Rainman don’t worry, you are not the only one.
My story is all over red alert. Too much proberly. As for the dream is over, don’t know when it began. WINZ have some dentist funds for work that needs doing but not sure how this works, not sure if you need to pay it back or if it just for urgent cases or not. Have a feeling you do as if you get glasses you need to pay that back. I’m lucky my children are under 6 so doctors are free unless they need to go to after hours and then it costs.
Yes I do think it is time for dentists to be cheaper.