Last week John Key was saying that the SAS would be coming home from Afghanistan at the end of March.
“I made it clear actually that the SAS are coming back at the end of March, that they need to re-group,” says Mr Key.
But a trip to Kabul and a conversation with a five four star General later, and the policy is changing. Changing so fast that neither his Foreign Minister nor his Defence Minister know anything about it.
Its easy to see why Gen McCrystal would want the SAS to stay on. He needs all the friends he can get, and especially ones as good at their jobs as the SAS. But surely this is not how New Zealand should be making a decision about sending New Zealanders into a war?
Good on John Key for going to Afghanistan to visit the Kiwis who are up there. As with Helen Clark going there, these visits are an important sign that politicians have the courage of their convictions. But making decisions about re-commitment is serious stuff. It should not be done on the hoof. It all feels a bit like someone who goes on holiday to Brisbane and decides to move there on the basis of having had a good time. Only to discover that the daily grind of living is not quite the same as being on holiday.
New Zealanders and our troops deserve better than John Key simply agreeing with the last person he talked to.
McCrystal just happens to be commander of the International Security Assistance Force. Key’s had discussions with him, talked to the SAS and seen what’s happening first hand.
On the basis of that he’s considering – get that “considering” – extending the deployment.
If you have some issue with what the ISAF is trying to achieve then put forward some sort of intelligent argument. Obama has made very extensive speeches on the topic, they might be worth addressing.
Minor correction Grant. It was a four star General, not a five star General.
A four star general is equal to the UK rank of General and is the highest the US has had since 1950, when Omar Bradley was the last person to be appointed a five star general (known as General of the Army), equal to a Field Marshall.
And for those who really like their military trivia, two people have been given even higher ranks – John Pershing was appointed General of the Armies (think 5.5 stars) and a very famous American was appointed General of the Armies of the United States (effectively six stars).
Today’s programme was brought to you by the letter D and the number 8.
A little point and I heard Phil Tywford say the same thing. McCrystal isnt a five star general. That would put him in the league of Eisenhower!!
Being of the persuasion that we should not even be in Afghanistan (& nor should anyone else for that matter as it has nothing to do with anyone outside the region), I am inclined to feel skeptical in how objective John Key is being about this.
Seems to me that he goes over there, gets into the spirit of the ‘cowboys & indians’ mentality & then comes home & decides yep, it’s a great idea – they should stay longer without much strategic analysis. And the fact that he is persuaded by an American General – well, that is just plain irksome!
Yes the SAS are extremely good at what they do which means they should be in regions more pertinent to us – or come home and spend time with their families.
Issues like this show his lack of political and foreign diplomacy experience.
I think it also shows, again, that JK has a “mirroring” personality—reflect the views, wishes, beliefs etc. of those you are talking to, even if that make the things you say and do wildly inconsistent.
It certainly works when you’re buying and selling, or perhaps are a manager, for example, but probably not a good personality when you’re meant to be running a country.
Neil. Does this mean that there is sub-standard intelligence being relayed back to the powers in NZ? Surely back at the Beehive they would have high quality information and advice? Surely a flying visit would not be able to add to the picture especially for an person inexperienced in combat?
Smacks of more off the cuff mirroring that Key does so well but this leaves the Team back at base in a quandry. Support the boss or disagree, or bury the issue? Cycleway? Whaling? Kick them in the pants? Drop the wages? etc
Iamac, whatever the intelligence they get in Wellington most likely the best sort of intelligence would be a face to face meeting with the most senior officer.
and once again, no decision has been made, all Key has said is that he would consider extending beyond March.
But if Labour have a problem with Obama’s plan then I’d like to see what it is. I suppose the must have felt Bush put forward a far stronger case.
@Neil. I suggest you watch Phil’s speech when the decision was made to send the SAS back last year. That gives Labour’s position clearly. This is a very different conflict now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFiwLaOsIAY
I’ve all ready seen it. No where does Goff address Obama’s arguments.
I don’t doubt that at the time Goff agreed with Bush about troops in good faith, and I’m inclined to think the same now about Key and Obama.
You say the conflict changed back when Labour was in office, the conflict has change since then as well and there has also been a change in the US presidency.
Who sent them there in the first place, let me think National (no) Labour yes (give that man a chocolate fish)
Neil, the point is that we have no idea what the Prime Minister’s position is, and – much worse – whether there is any strategic rationale for his decisions, at all. You can quote John Key’s words today, but so what? The words were very different – and very clear – only last week. Are you saying they should now be ignored? Why are this week’s words any different? What will they be next week?
I don’t know where John Key stands. Nor do you. That doesn’t matter much. But if John Key doesn’t know where John Key stands, that matters a lot.
Why does talking to the General change a position so uch from talking tot he Vice President and president of the USA only about ten days ago? The military carry out orders, they dont issue them to other countries.
I can understand (whether I accept is anothe rissue) the need for our military reconstruction teams to stay, but the SAS?
McCrystal just happens to be commander of the International Security Assistance Force. Key’s had discussions with him, talked to the SAS and seen what’s happening first hand.
How often have such commanders and the SAS suggested they dont need anymore military in a military zone? I kind of expect both the General and the SAS to be talking about staying, isn’t war and conflict their bread and butter?
What worries me is that the SAS isnt really a ‘training’ organisation , least of all for the Afghan police or even Afghan army. Think of the language and cultural differences.
In NZ we take qualified people and then show them how to teach others.
Its all too bizarre.
Made worse by Keys front brain not talking to his back brain. And that is being kind
It’s the bit where McCully and Mapp don’t know what is going on that worries me. Surely the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Defence would have something to say about a foreign troop deployment?
Getting back to first principles: what benefit to New Zealand could an extended deployment provide, and what could a four star general offer a New Zealand politician to make an extended deployment attractive?
Or did General McCrystal just seem a likeable person?
What I find so galling about this arrogant prime minister is: he is like a lost babe in the woods when it comes to foreign affairs and defence matters. His position seems to chop and change depending on with whom he last talked. I remember Phil Goff offering to work with Key in the area of F.A. soon after he took over as opposition leader. This is someone who spent a number of years as minister of both Foreign Affairs and Defence and in the process would have gathered an immense amount of knowledge that he could have passed on to Key. As far as I know, Key never took up Goff’s offer, and to add insult to injury he left Goff out of the loop re-his recent “secret” trip to Afghanistan. If the boot had been on the other foot, Goff would have had the courtesy to advise Key in advance of such a trip, and I bet you will find that Helen Clark advised the Nat. opposition leaders during her term as prime minister.
Are you sure Anne? Clark never came across as big on manners.
Back your story up with facts.
really theresaj, i wonder how she got arguably the third most important diplomatic post in the world, you know, if she has bad manners.
Good point!