Red Alert

To fight, or not

Posted by on April 25th, 2010

In our short history we have seen our fair share of battlefield carnage. Arguably it has helped make us one of the most peace-seeking of nations. The popular support for our nuclear-free policy,  our extensive peace-keeping deployments and the decision to stay out of Iraq reflects strong anti-war sentiment.

And yet throughout our history New Zealanders have always been ready to go to war when called. Modern ANZAC Day services are not anti-war. They respect the sacrifices made by our service men and women.

So what do we think of this paradox?  Historian Glyn Harper addressed it when he gave the 2010 Jack Lyon Memorial Lecture last weekend. It is an annual event hosted by the North Shore Committee of the Labour Party to commemorate Jack Lyon, a Labour MP who held the seat of Waitemata 1935-41.

Lyon personified the paradox. He was a left wing internationalist who believed he had to fight when the cause was right. At the age of 17 Lyon lied about his age so he could fight in WW1. In 1939 he did it again, this time knocking four years off his real age, so he could fight fascism.  He reached the rank of Captain, and died under German fire during the evacuation of Crete.

You can read or listen to Glyn Harper’s excellent lecture. It was a special night. Glyn read out two letters home from New Zealand soldiers in Gallipoli – letters never read in public before.  The event was attended by Sophie Tomlinson, Jack Lyon’s granddaughter. Defence Minister Hon Wayne Mapp was also there and found himself in the middle of some spirited debate about whether our SAS should currently be in Afghanistan.  It was a good warm up for ANZAC Day.  You can read more about last year’s event too.


7 Responses to “To fight, or not”

  1. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    The right cause ?
    Doesnt sound like Gallipoli would come under that category.

  2. Left Out says:

    And today I remember the 250,000 Turks who died and the 400,000 wounded. Simple, ordinary men, called upon to do the extraordinary, defending their homeland in a war not of their making.

    And today I remember the generosity of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk when he wrote

    “Those heroes that shed their blood
    and lost their lives;
    You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
    Therefore rest in peace.
    There is no difference between the Johnnies
    and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side
    here in this country of ours.
    You, the mothers,
    who sent their sons from far away countries,
    wipe away your tears;
    your sons are now lying in our bosom
    and are in peace.
    After having lost their lives on this land they have
    become our sons as well.”

    And today I remember the selflessness of the Turks who permit the descendants of those invaders to hold memorial services in Turkey, and I ask myself how we would feel if Germans and Japanese attempted the same thing here.

    Lest we forget that WW1 was a war about trade; nothing more, nothing less.

    A bayonet is a weapon with a worker at each end.

  3. Falafulu Fisi says:

    I salute our men/women who had/have been in the theater of war in the past to defend our freedom (either from the left or right of the political spectrum – ie, is irrelevant).

  4. Spud says:

    Goff put it well, something to the effect that it’s good to avoid going to war if you can, but sometimes you have to get in and fight.

  5. Sanctuary says:

    The days of fighting for empire (be it the British or American one) are over, but the debate of when and where we might fight is an important one, because from that debate springs our priorities for defence expenditure. Also, for a nation of just 4.3 millions where we decide we must stand, if it implies serious conflict, also implies conscription so we must have more than just an elite consensus on where, when and how.

    Be able to independently defend our home islands is axiomatic. The direct threat to our home islands is however so remote or improbable that it can scarcely be approached sensibly from the point of view of planning a force structure.

    One of Labour’s greatest legacies to this nation is (unlike the craven boot lickers of National) it has developed a reasonably coherent set of popular foreign policy objective for this country. As a small nation, we must be prepared to stand and fight for pan-nationalism and the rule of international law, and we must be prepared to shed our blood to stop distant and foreign tyrants who threaten the freedom of others or who commit gross crimes against humanity.

  6. The Gnat Exterminator says:

    I agree with the sentiments of Glyn’s address – war is a terrible waste and should be the last resort to preventing a greater evil.

    On those grounds, removing the odious Taliban and Al Qaeda from Afghanistan are justifible and NZ should continue to support the Afghan government in holding back insurgents (despite well held reservations about the legitimacy of the latest election).

  7. The Gnat Exterminator says:

    BTW, I would recommend anyone wanting to see the tragedy of war in it’s rawest form should track down a copy of the Japanese animation film ‘Grave of the Fireflies’ – a film about two Japanese children orphaned by the war and unable to care for themselves.

    Make sure you have the tissues handy.

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