So a private prison is going to be built at Wiri.
I see some iwi are rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospect of being able to get rich by locking their own up.
It goes to show how high the aspirations of some of our Maori leaders are. We now aspire to bung the bros in the hinaki and watch the dollars roll in. The longer and more often we can put them away, the sooner we will be able to afford to expand the prison and lock even more away.
With the soaring crime rate and high Maori unemployment everything is coming together nicely for iwi to become extremely wealthy. The last thing these iwi will want is for the country to emerge from the recession or for our kids to do well at school. Every Maori child born is a potential source of income – not as a leader, businessman or entrepreneur but as a Beagle Boy.
What the heck, if profits start to dip or costs need to be cut, these iwi can just pay the other rellies who guard the bros a little less, or sack a couple of them – purely in the best interests of the iwi of course. Better still they could just buy a couple of hundred bucks worth of piss, give it to some of the younger bros and when they get locked up for drink driving, smacking the missus over or putting a knife into someone we can rest assured in the knowledge the iwi will utimately benefit.
Making money by locking the bros up is culturally abhorrent and if this is one of the Treaty rights that we’re after, they can stick it. I’d rather have my integrity.
By all means infuse kaupapa Maori throughout the prison system – surely Pita Sharples can wield his considerable influence as Associate Minister of Corrections to make this happen? Just don’t ever pretend it is okay for iwi to lock the whanau up and make money from it.
Personally I’d prefer iwi put their energies into supporting their local schools and building universities, but maybe I’m just old fashioned. That would take a bit of effort and why would iwi bother going down that old path when there’s a quick buck to be made by locking the bros up? Besides, preventing Maori from getting to prison in the first place will cut into profits.
@ Kelvin Davis “Paying iwi to mentor at risk kids through to university IS simple, is positive, is preventative and should have a good outcome for iwi in the end.”
@ Rebecca “I agree, I would love nothing more. Question is, why do these things NEVER happen?”
I agree completely with Kelvin. I do think prevention, education, love, values, jobs, support and effort are the ingredients for a successful society.
And Rebecca, instead of asking “why do these things NEVER happen?” I will say and propose, let’s make it happen NOW!!!!!!
We all complain about things not happening; we should be proactive then. Let’s make an experiment and bet that we can make it possible. Instead of sitting right now in our chair, comfy couch or bed with our PC or lap top, stand up, grab paper and pen and write. Write your petition for having Iwis involved in prevention, in education, in supporting those kids and teens that unfortunately are living at a home that are not the best influence for them.
We can’t blame poverty. Through my short life I have known many persons that had lived in adverse circumstances homes, and have changed their lives completely… As well, I have known many others that had everything and more… and their lives are a huge waste. It is time to stop blaming everyone else for what is happening. It is time to heal the historical wounds that we have. We should make the most of this moment and be involved with the change.
I know it is a long way to go, but no one said it is easy to have the country we all dream of. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. A tree grows from one seedling. A tower starts with one brick.
Kelvin raised the issue, sorry but I will send my petition to you. We can make this happen. I think it is worthy, not only for us, but for the future generations that will come and to demonstrate to us that as a society, that if we want, we can do it.
Let’s stop being merely circumstances and let’s be agents of change. Grab paper and pen and write what you want. Enroll yourself and vote in the next election. Don’t buy beer this weekend, or buy less. Instead get a book and share quality time with your kids. Wake up 15 minutes earlier and call your whänau and tell them you love them. Focus on your job today, and give the extra mile. The real change begins in each one of us.
We are 21 persons in this blog… I would like to know how many of us will do something to make this happen.
Kelvin, you have opened the Pandora Box… and I think it was good. What are we doing to make this happen? I’m in.
Beba how can any of us outside Maoridom possibly influence the 50.8% of Maori that end up in prison other than what we already do (e.g. donate to & occasionally volunteer for groups that work with child abuse)?
Leadership has to come from Maori first and foremost.
Other than that all we can do is be the best people we can be in our own families, schools, workplaces and communities and push to have a government that looks for solutions not sticky plasters or quick fixes.
That is why I comment on this blog as while I feel Labour failed miserably in terms of addressing crime, drug & alcohol abuse, family violence and child abuse (they have all gone up dramatically in the last 10 years), I do believe that they are the political that has the potential to lead this country away from these hideous stats and into a future we are loved and respect as much for treatment of children as we are for our landscape.
In terms of petitions 18 months ago I cycled 150km straight off the cuff (minimal training) to raise money for and awareness of groups that advocate against and work towards prevention of child abuse.
I received a lot of sponsorship from almost everyone I contacted in my own community as well as local businesses – including one that is nationwide and has a multi-million turnover.
I contacted the Maori Party co-leaders to see if they would lend a voice to my campaign as well as my Local Labour MP. I received a brief reply via their admin people stating that this issue had nothing to do with them and that they were too busy . Further, the only media that was interested in publishing my story was my local paper. No one else responded.
Although I was the first person in NZ to doing something like this to advocate against child abuse (everyone else chooses heart kids, Cure Kids, CanTEEN etc), I hit wall after wall of silence.
It was incredibly demoralising – more so because the Maori Party who represent the people that make up the majority of physical abuse, neglect and maltreatment, showed no interest whatsoever.
If they don’t show leadership in terms of prevention, rehabilitation and solutions to reduce the number their own people being incarcerated, then how can anything we do make a difference?
Why do people write comments that are larger than the blog itself? It does not make me want to read them.
Rebecca Said: “Labour are essentially saying the Maori party & iwi will sell out to the highest bidder all in the name of profit – I would call that un PC”
From a personal perspective: If the shoe fits
Can anyone remember the Mawhera Incorporation on the west coast pulling down war memorial gates and dumping them in a paddock so they could build a shopping centre?
Nah that never happened waterboy.
“Why do people write comments that are larger than the blog itself? It does not make me want to read them.”
There on ego trips James99.
You’re right. I suspect most readers scroll over them.
(smily emoticon wot Clare doesn’t like.)
Really big comments are hard for me to read too, partly because it’s on a screen. If there are heaps of them I sometimes skim read them, if I’m busy sometimes skip.
Go on Anne, live dangerously, put a smile,
James99: discussing real issues such as crime, violence, child abuse and so on can not done so appropriately nor give the issues the validation they deserve in a sentence or two, let alone one liners.
If people can’t be bothered reading other people’s points of view who are clearly passionate about seeing this country move forward and be known for how well we treat our young ones, as much as we are for our landscape then so be it, their loss.
2011 election will be the test as to whether they made the right choice.
Can only speak for myself byut I can be bothered and read most of what is written here, but I get tired.
(Sleeping emoticon would be good too).
Spud I must admit I skim read too, especially if I find the comments seem to be more about subtly having a dig at someone. I find such people bring down the tone of the blog which is a shame as like we have said earlier, it is fantastic that Labour are doing this.
While you may not feel like reading every post Spud, you should definitely throw in your 2 cents with in terms of debating the issues. I am sure you have a lot of good opinions to share rather than just a variety of emoticons!
Kia ora. I see that Willie J dont like what you have to say about this kaupapa bro, but you are rite, kia kaha tatou there has to be a better way.
I know I’m a little late on this but @Rebecca
I would argue that Maori today have more racial pride than Pakeha mainly because they are allowed to. It’s absolutely crminial today to be proud to be white. Politicians like Kelvin are allowed to speak out for their people like this. Any Pakeha equivelant of Kelvin who would step up to the same plate would sound like a racist prick. Just try replacing Kelvins Maori words with White (there are plenty of white private prisons housing white inmates around the world too you know)
I’m a young Pakeha and have absolutely nothing to be proud of and if I ever try and speak like I’m proud I sound like a 4uckin fascist. There is an emptiness where Partiotism should be. I think having a sense of national identity has nothing to do with being a crminal… besides we looked after Maori pretty well we let them keep their language and culutre to a much greater extent than any other colony and I don’t think they have ever weakened a great deal… look at how Aboriginies and Native Americans ended up.
I think the reason why there are more Maoris in jail than Pakeha is far more complex than what you suggest.
Dylan you have a point however when you look at Maori history their culture emphasised to me, something beautiful, family orientated and welcoming. They had a natural justice for example, if a tribe was not making good use of the land/smoke was not rising above it then the Chief would redistribute it (anyone correct me if I am wrong – thinking back to NZ history at Uni…a very long time ago!).
With the forced amalgamation and subsequent urbanisation it was almost inevitable, I believe, that so many lost their roots, lost their identity.
Nothing that I have read about Maoridom has suggested that they accept a culture of violence in terms of how women and children especially are treated. Yet that seems to be the case for so many – 40% in fact (rate of violent offenders incarcerated), today.
Yes I too take issue with the fact that if say Trevor Mallard, Chris Hipkins, Clare Curran etc had posted this blog then the media would have no doubt picked it up and called them racist. But then this could apply to any circumstance as when it is something that personally relates to you then you have, I think, more freedom to comment.
In terms of Non Maori cultures: I am of strong Irish decent but do not have a strong affinity with my ancestors or the Irish culture. My family does though and are very big on genealogy etc.
My values and identity are based purely on my moral compass & family values rather an affinity with my ancestors.
This is what I believe separates Maori from (particularly western) Non Maori and it is for that reason that I think unless you are in their shoes, it is probably quiet difficult to gage the impact of colonisation.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think Dylan was denying that Maori have been through a difficult time or that they have good things in their culture. I’m not commenting on the prison thing.
Irish aye
– Drink on St Patty’s? 
Rebecca my point was Pakeha probably have less of a cultural identity than Maori but do less crime you havent really addressed it.
Maori culture is beautiful sure whatever what has that got to do with the point.
I think Maori have in no way lost their roots when compared to Pakeha, I don’t even know what blood runs through my veins, it’s a crazy mix of all sorts of Europeans and theres a Maori in my ancestry aswell, I’m living in a country with a huge amount of immigration I have alot of asian friends aswell as friends from all over the western to eastern edge of Europe, there are no writings or big characters on Pakeha nationalism or identity… we are a colony and our motherland abandoned us first by not helping us in WW2 then by joining the EU and cutting off our trade relationship… when considering our history as white New Zealanders we are a young people whereas Maori have hundreds of years of history behind them. I think any Maori will have several times stronger an identity than any Pakeha… and to that end I think this identity thing you’ve spoken of has absolutely nothing to do with Maori’s commiting much more crime than Pakeha and going to prison more often.
Anyone else have any ideas as to why more Maoris go to jail than white NZers… no matter how much I ponder over this issue I can never find an answer.
Well I will respond to Dylan’s question with another question: what proportion of Maori criminal offending is a) associated with gangs and the strength of gangs, b)unemployment and underemployment, and c) under achievement in education.
The answers to those should provide some pretty good clues.
Loota this is what I found when posting on the other post pertaining to private prisons:
http://www.corrections.govt.nz/about-us/facts-and-statistics/facts-and-statistics2.html
The average annual cost of housing a prisoner is $90,977 or $249.25 per day
40% are in prison due to violent offenses
About 18% (biggest chunk) are aged between 20-24
50.8% of the prisoners are Maori
23% are gang members
50% do not return to prison within 4 years of their release.
@Loota I will answer your questions which I have already considered with more questions
a) Why should gangs be considered Maori exclusive there are plenty of White and Asian gangs and gangs of all races the world over b) Why are more Maori unemployed than white people c) Why do more Maori under achieve than White people.
Sure you can say a big incentive to commit crimes is because your poor and more Maori are poorer because more Maori are unemployed but then Why are more Maori unemployed? I don’t think they are inherently lazy either I’ve been studying NZ history at my school and the Maori were a very active and spirited race.
Thanks Rebecca, those stats are definitely worth thinking about. Especially rewording that last point “50% return to prison within 4 years of their release” it becomes much more jarring.
@ Dylan, I did not suggest that gangs be considered some kind of Maori exclusive, and I would appreciate it if you did not imply that I did.
What I feel is relevant is in Rebecca’s stats: gang members are over represented in prison, as are Maori. And presumably, if you are a gang member AND Maori, you have an even higher chance of being in those statistics. So that intersection is relevant.
Now, when you mention things like poverty and unemployment (and I would also add, gang involvement and educational achievement) I think you are starting to get to the heart of the matter. And hence closer to the strategy needed to solve the problem of over-representation in NZ prisons i.e. address issues of poverty, unemployment, gang involvement and educational underachievement, and you begin to address some root causes of the over represented in prisons issue.
Not that I expect National to bother with this kind of nuance, of course.
Ok Loota step #1 to solving a problem. Identify the cause. Why are Maori worse off than Pakeha in educational achievement and are less employed?
Actually you don’t always have to identify the cause of a problem to solve it. Counter-intuitive but true. As for the detail of why Maori are worse off than pakeha in educational achievement…I have my own preconceptions of the various factors but I have never actually examined the issues in depth for myself.
Well I have spent countless hours examining the issue and talking about this issue with my friends, last year I had this one friend who I used to have alot of convos with about this sort of thing at school, and this was our favourite subject to talk about, why Maoris are so much worse off when they are offered the same opportunities as we are and why there is nothing genetically wrong with them, there isn’t because as I said before Pakeha came they used to be incredibly spirited and active people. So it must have something to do with us but I can never see what. I cannot think of a single other topic where I have reached a philosophical dead end as I do when trying to solve plight of the Maori.
So what helps anyone succeed at school? Things which I think helped me include: having a settled home life and good physical security. Having parents and friends supportive of educational achievement and always willing to help out. Not being short of a meal or a warm place to live. An awareness that an education can make future living better and easier. Access to whatever books and educational materials that I needed. Some good role models – e.g. other family members and friends who had done well in education, and who weren’t all that unlike myself. I suppose these are things that anyone would find supportive in doing well in education.
@Dylan
@Loota
Maybe part of your question of Maori kids not achieving is answered by Kelvin Davis himself… I remember that he wrote about this some months ago:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/2721701/Excellent-teachers-every-childs-right
@ Beba Koru
Yes, teachers are a very important part of a successful education system and the quality of teaching should be examined. Kelvin does answer a part of the question. Worth bearing in mind of course that a child is only in the classroom with a teacher for 6 out of 24 hours a day. So its also worth examining the quality of what happens in the other 18 hours of the child’s experience.
Loota, I agree with you.
Education is much more than English and Maths. I consider there is a huge, HUGE gap in what are we teaching to our kids. We forgot the values and the good role models. Education is the only path to change a society.
And all those good things that should be taught at home, must be reinforced at school. And any bad influence received must be identify by schools. It is not a one way road; whanau and schools should be compromised and work closely linked in order to have kids out of problems and that in the future they can make a contribution to our society.
@ Beba Koru +1 to everything in your post mate. Nice.
You miss the point Kelvin. Don’t twist this and imply that some iwi WANT to see their people locked up. You tell me the name of one iwi that has said that?
Iwi that I have spoken to, interested in the private prison possibility, are not saying that want to do this because of the money but because they are not happy with how the present system is catering for their people. Fair enough! The public prison system is not working for them or their people and they are, rightly, looking at other ways to address this than sit around and continue to watch their people go to prison and then come out either entirely not rehabilitated, or an even more hardened criminal!
I have always been a strong supporter of these services being government run but I have to say that even when Labour was in power this issue was a key one for Maori and very little effective change has occured over the past 10 years.
I’m not saying that I actually think private prisons are the answer, either, but I read your column and asked myself ‘what does Kelvin have to offer this debate other than a petty attack on some iwi keen on exploring this idea?’
Loota @ 9.57pm – I emphatically agree.
Why Maori underachieve more than Non Maori and why they end up in prison is I believe due first and foremost to the forced amalgamation and subsequent urbanisation of them which led to a loss of culture and identity.
Dylan you say that (I’m assuming) Non Maori of I’m assuming predominantly European descent have suffered this more. Not so. Europeans have never had the kind of community/whanau culture that Maori and other similarly indigenous cultures have.
You have to compare apples with apples. A better comparison would be Aborigines, African Americans and Africans. There you will find similar patterns as a result of the same colonial patterns and they, like Maori struggle with unemployment and higher representation in crime & incarceration.
In New Zealand I believe we have done so much to recognise where we went wrong – some will obviously disagree with this however, given we actually have the Treaty makes us very unique indeed.
BUT recognition is not a solution in itself and it is here that we come unstuck.
We have to start addressing the fact that Maori are over representated in unemployment, illiteracy rates, crime & incarceration and the ONLY way to do this is to give them everything Loota has described above: a warm dry safe place to sleep with food in their tummies, clothes on their back, shoes on their feet and books and a good lunch in their school bag.
These things will do wonders and community projects like Books in Schools (the Duffy program) are just wonderful.
Question is, is the government prepared to step up and help all these hardworking underfunded and under resourced non profit groups out? We have seen a lot of policies that window dress the issue, but none that really get to the nitty gritty. The reality is more Maori are committing horrific crimes more than ever before and more are also lining up for the food parcels than ever poor. Clearly whats in place is NOT working.
Perhaps Whanau Ora will be a step in the right direction.
Areti Metuamate: I agree with your point. The media does obviously jump on all the things that the prisons do wrong and miss all the good things that they do right however, overall things are getting worse. So if the current system is not working – and the stats I have given here and on the other post show this, then surely an alternative is worth looking at.
I do however, think Kelvin has a point – I am a little skeptical with how quick some Iwi do seem to be to go for the dollar. And Dr Pita Sharples recent quote when he essentially said he would sell out to the highest bidder didn’t help things.
We need more people in Corrections like Assistant General Manager Leanne Field who believe that prisoners are by and large damaged goods which means they can be healed, who has no time for those who believe in locking the door and throwing away the key.
Rebecca I’m not saying non maori of european descent have suffered more. All I’m saying is that Maori havent lost their identity you keep saying they have how have they? They know exactly who they are and still do many of their own cultural practices… ok so your saying colonialism makes the natives inevitably worse off well how/why…
@Rebecca
I’m not saying that non maori of european descent have had it worse and don’t assume that so you can go on a crusade of stating facts that everyone already knows that everyone loves to go on when discussing the situation of Maori. All I’m saying is A) How could you possibly state that Pakeha have less of an identity than Maori do because of my previous posts, B) How does this identity thing you keep speaking of have anything to do with living standards and crime rate even if Maori did have less of an identity.
@Beba Koru
Role models and values? Who the hell are my role models as a Pakeha? Let’s see whenever I turn on the television I’m bombarded with self centered white celebrities. Who are my leaders? Well theres John Key the most uncharismatic sod to ever walk the earth. I grew up without a father too. I have had absolutely no role models as a Pakeha all my life and been seriously taught no values anywhere. And I have everything planned out to go to university and I am aiming for a well paid job. I have no criminal record no gang affiliations. I’m not spectacular at school but I am passing everything I need to do go to uni. And I’m not the only Pakeha with no role models you know if you know any Pakeha role models state them but I have never heard of one. Sure maybe Maori need to be taught these values by teachers but while I’ve never seen a teacher teach a single Maori a single value I’ve never seen a teacher teach a single Pakeha a single value either. Except for the don’t bully people value in primrary school.
So I think this rubbish has nothing to do with how Maori end up worse off than Pakeha.
@Loota
Your saying that you need good living conditions to do well in school, weather your right or not that just fires back to the question of Why Maori are in worse living conditions; again your saying theres a problem with Maori because of another problem with Maori but we need to get to the cause of the chain of problems or we’ll just go around in circles.
p.s sorry for the sort of double post it posted half way through writing the first one…
Dylan kids don’t and can’t turn out okay unless someone takes the time to support validate them. You must have had someone solid in your corner. I’m really sorry to hear you have grown up without a dad – kudos to you for trying to make the most of the opportunities you have.
In terms of your questions: I have given you an explanation which I believe goes a long way to identifying why Maori are over represented in so many negative stats – from child abuse, to schooling, violence or teen pregnancies. Every article I have read by those who are experts in this field – including Leanne Field who is the assistance General Manager for Corrections, seems to hold similar views to me.
I think it is fantastic that as a young person you are so passionate about our social issues so good on you for taking the time to post on here.
@ Dylan
I’m a Pakeha as well. I grew up without my father, too.
I absolutely agree with you regarding what the media is showing us as “role models”. And what I mean when I talk about role models is that we are focusing in the wrong ones. We should turn our eyes to the real ones, the real persons that have made a difference in our life or society.
I would say mine is my mother. A lawyer that became a widow at 25 and raised three kids all by herself with the philosophy of honesty, hard work and determination. I also had a couple of teachers that I knew I wanted be like them. I’m quite sure there is someone that inspire us in a good or a bad way. What I’m saying is that we should encourage those ones that make it in a good one. And find the courage to hold those dreams and aspirations we have until we make them true.
Those are the role models that I talk about, the real ones, the ones that will make a change on us. And I personally think that teachers must get involved in reinforcing values. And we can be very clear about this, we don’t have to discover something new… values such as honesty, respect, responsibility, loyalty, equality, peace and discipline make a huge difference in a society.
“And we can be very clear about this, we don’t have to discover something new… values such as honesty, respect, responsibility, loyalty, equality, peace and discipline make a huge difference in a society.”
+1 to that Beba Koru
@ Dylan, at a certain point in time it becomes academic to keep asking “why” round and round in circles. Simply, find the most effective parts of the cycle to intervene at, and get in there to effect change.
You may not get it exactly right the first time so be prepared to adjust and fine tune your strategy as you go on over the years.
Hrmmm… it looks like my question will have to get answered another day. Thanks for your friendly attitudes but I give up.
@ Areti Metuamate
“Iwi that I have spoken to, interested in the private prison possibility, are not saying that want to do this because of the money but because they are not happy with how the present system is catering for their people. Fair enough!”
Willie Jackson isn’t an iwi, but on Marae this morning he said, “Why shouldn’t Maori make a profit?” – so they are interested in the money, and it’s naive to pretend otherwise. They make their money by reducing rehabilitation services, double bunking, getting overseas guards who are prepared to work for less but can’t relate to Maori prisoners, reducing guard numbers which is dangerous combined with the double bunking, paying guards less and employing guards who don’t meet the standards – how do we know, because this is what happened when Auckland Central Remand Prison was privatised under the last National government.
“The public prison system is not working for them or their people and they are, rightly, looking at other ways to address this than sit around and continue to watch their people go to prison and then come out either entirely not rehabilitated, or an even more hardened criminal!”
Where’s Pita Sharples in all this? he’s the Associate Minister of Corrections. Why isn’t he insisting kaupapa Maori and all Willie Jackson’s ideas get infused in all prisons now? If he doesn’t have the influence as the Associate Minister to push for the system to be changed, why is he in the role? He has just rolled over and toed the National Party line when there’s no evidence that private prisons work. In fact the evidence says the contrary. Paying million dollar contracts to iwi to run prisons simply makes them dependent on the current government for income – vote buying.
“what does Kelvin have to offer this debate other than a petty attack on some iwi keen on exploring this idea?’”
Let’s start with the following:
1. Schools can identify at risk Maori students right now. These iwi leaders need to walk into their local schools and ask for these lists of names. They then need to ask Judith Collins (Corrections & Police), Anne Tolley (Education), Simon Power (Justice), Paula Bennett (Social Development), Pita Sharples (Maori Affairs) and Tariana Turia (Whanau Ora) to set aside money from their Ministries so that these iwi can mentor these at risk kids from now through to university to PREVENT them going to prison in the first place.
2. Pita Sharples needs to demand that Maori kaupapa and all the stuff Willie Jackson says will work, is infused in all prisons right now and prove it works with the state running the show.
3. These iwi leaders need to build universities, so that we can educate our people, hospitals so that we can improve our Maori health outcomes and research centres so that Maori can change the world.
Building prisons lacks inspiration, aspiration, innovation and ambition. It is the most negative institution we could possibly want to build and run, and if being in charge of a prison is the best we can do, we’re stuffed. Iwi leaders who see the incarceration of Maori by Maori as a way forward for Maori deserve all the criticism I can muster.
Kelvin – Couple of points. “when there’s no evidence that private prisons work”, As you also point out Public prisons don’t seem to be working. It seems to me that there is a lack of recognition of this from the Judiciary on down. Can someone please remember that prisons are not natural to society and not necessary or helpful for all crimes or criminals. Prior to prisons the English used hanging or exile and I understand Maori used an ‘ordeal’ punishment. These started for the worst offenders, but as hanging became too popular for minor crimes people had to find new ways (ie prison) and they started as rehab facilities rather than punishment. Personally I would like to see smaller facilities with open sentences, for rehab or preventative detention.
“so that these iwi can mentor these at risk kids from now through to university to PREVENT them going to prison in the first place.” Gotta be better than being mentored by the gangs, but I don’t see why its the iwi doing the mentoring, but maybe setting up a couple of mentors/experiences for different parts of life.
Assuming that preventing one person from ever going to prison saves society $200,000 in costs (from avoiding harm to a victim, police and judicial intervention, a prison stay, consequent losses of economic productivity, etc), we can afford to spend quite a bit on an effective programme and still come up well ahead economically.
And well ahead societally, in ways which can’t even begin to be quantified.
The trick is putting together a good programme which really works.
Kelvin – I’ve never heard any iwi leader say that owning prisons is an aspiration or the ‘best we can do’, and so I don’t find your arguments in response to my initial post at all convincing. You seem more interested in playing politics with the Maori party on this issue and pointing blame at Pita Sharples and iwi leaders — I don’t know where you get your intell but the Maori party’s stance on private prisons is not simply an attempt to follow the National party’s line. Some of their MPs and members have been talking about this for a while.
As for your expectations of iwi leaders. Where do you get this idea that iwi leaders seem to have some major role in the lives of their iwi members? I have been on school boards and can you tell you now that if an iwi leader turned up asking for the names of at risk kids, we wouldn’t be handing over a list to them as you suggest.
And you say that iwi leaders need to build universities — well in my iwi that’s exactly what we have done — Te Wananga o Raukawa and the Endowed College at Hopuhopu, which is in the process of being set up. That’s a positive step for Maori but it is not going to keep all our people out of prison so we still have to look at the prison situation and how it caters for Maori. Ideally, with all the initiatives you suggest, we would have less Maori in prison so I am not disagreeing with you entirely, but we have lots to do and Maori run prisons, it seems to me, is an idea worth looking at in an environment that we all seem to agree is not working.
But let’s be real here Kelvin, no iwi leader I know of gets joy from seeing the huge numbers of their people put in prison. I don’t know what iwi leaders you engage with but I would love to know the names of those you say are rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospect of getting rich by locking their own up. Willie Jackson doesn’t count. I’m not sure what your belief is in Willie Jackson but he is hardly the authority for Maori leadership. Read your response again. You seem to imply Willie Jackson has a key voice for Maori on this kaupapa. We all know he is vocal and controversial and I don’t mind the guy but I don’t give much weight to what he thinks. He is not the voice for my iwi or any iwi for that matter so to use him as a reference point after saying the stuff you have about iwi leaders, is slightly ironic. Of course Willie Jackson, the champion for urban Maori and Maori enterprise, is going to say what he did. But that doesn’t mean all Maori leaders think like that.
I think you need to be a bit more real on this issue Kelvin. If you disagree with private prisons because they are fundamentally not in line with your political ideology, or party policy, then say so and say why. But to put out what you have (which amounts to an misguided attack on Maori leadership) in the way that you have is just sloppy politics. I usually find myself agreeing with you but when you take a negative approach and make unfounded claims, as you have with this issue, you lose credibility.
Rebecca. re 18th April statement that urbanisation causes loss of identity as Maori. I am the mother-in-law of an urban Maori, with 5 beautiful mokopuna. they are all VERY much in touch with their marae, “down the line”. The “grandma” and the “Nan & Koru” are very involved in their lives.
Stop the keening and start looking how the old ones can be used as role models, and the in-family police, to keep the young ones on the right track.
I would leave a smiley face, but don’t know how.
Areti – of course no one sees joy in our people going to prison, which is why we need to intervene before they get there and intervene at as early an age as possible. The younger an at risk person is, the easier and cheaper it is to help .Which is why I think it is rediculous for iwi not to intervene until our people get locked up. Schools can identify at risk kids now – so why do nothing until it’s too late. I would have loved the iwi up north to come into the school I was principal of and offer to play an active role in the lives of their kids. It would have been a great partnership, and it wasn’t like I didn’t ask often enough. In fact I tried to set up an Iwi Education Council that fell over after a couple of years of monthly meetings because we rarely got the same iwi reps to turn up two meetings in a row, and when they did they weren’t the iwi leaders, so they couldn’t make decisions.
If iwi leaders don’t have a role in the lives of their iwi members, then they aren’t leaders. And if they aren’t leaders they shouldn’t be trying to run prisons.
If they are prepared to run the prison at a loss then I will retract my statements about being in it for money, and apologise.
If iwi want to make money from our people they should make money by mentoring and supporting them through to university, or an apprenticeship or in to any other business but not prisons. Working closely with schools is a start.
Pita Sharples should be using his influence as Associate Minister of Corrections to make all the changes possible to the prison system so that it does meet the needs of Maori, but within the current system so that no iwi is compromised by receiving money for running them. That is a job for the state, who Pita Sharples now represents. Why else is he the Associate Minister?
As an artist and dreamer I pretty well stand outside mainstream society. I look at it and it’s aspirations seem soulless. They seem driven by the big stick… you work or you starve… no job they would have me do inspires (and even if it initially did, the practice of it and the nature of every boss I have ever had would soon fix that). Do I say… yes… here is my soul, throw it in the trash if you will, or do I say FU, behave accordingly and end up in jail? Indeed, had I, in my racial memory, a time when with my family I did my chores, and I tried my best to get out of my chores, and this was me living my life with my family, I wonder if my tears might not be rivers. Why should we find it incomprehensible that Maori do not aspire to the lesser of visions? Or briefly… the problem is that work is not a privilege it’s a chore, employment and hiring practices should address this to make work inspirational… to make work a choice freely chosen. When you think about it, most crime is hard work, what then is it about crime that makes it an attractive option?