It has not been the best week for Steven Joyce. Both his pronouncements on limiting access to student loans and reviewing the Super Gold card have seen him run an issue up the flagpole only to have to run it down again in very short order.
It seems that it all got the better of him on a visit to New Plymouth on Friday. The Taranaki Daily News has reported some very odd behaviour at the official opening of the Bell Block By-Pass. It sounds like a big local event with New Plymouth Mayor Peter Tennant in attendance along with former MP and Regional Councillor Roger Maxwell. The Daily News reports
But Mr Tennent was not long into his speech when Mr Joyce’s press secretary approached the minister and handed him a note. Mr Joyce then continually texted on his cellphone while Mr Tennent, then Mr Maxwell, spoke. And then, when it was the turn of New Zealand Transport Agency regional director Jenny Chetwynd to speak, Mr Joyce left his seat and walked behind a nearby bush so he could talk on his phone.
Apparently when the National cabinet are discussing their plans Mr Joyce is the first to raise the “optics” of a situation, ie how it will look to the public. I would say that texting at a public event is not good optics. Hiding behind a bush is also not good optics.
He was still behind the bush when all the speeches had finished, which forced organisers to postpone a ribbon-cutting ceremony for several minutes. When Mr Joyce wandered back out into the open, the remainder of the official opening continued without any further delays. After ceremonially cutting a ribbon and declaring the bypass open, he was then taken for a drive down the new section of highway in a big truck driven by New Plymouth MP Jonathan Young – and even then he was texting during most of his time in the cabin.
For the record, delaying a ribbon cutting ceremony because you are behind a bush talking on your cellphone is really poor optics, not to mention just plain discourteous. I am not sure about the optics of texting when Jonathan Young is driving “a big truck”, but it probably pays to keep half an eye on the road!
Now all of this took place on Friday. What was happening on Friday? Ah yes. That was just about the point that the review of the SuperGold card was turning into a rapidly descending flag. It would be fascinating to know who was on the other end of the phone, but I am guessing his first name was probably John.
Im sorry – I believe in a strong opposition – I think it is good for the country.
You give us – someone was on the phone at a time that was a little impolite.
We dont know who was on the other end – or what it was about (it could have been a serious personal issue that HAD to be taken) – but we will make wild guesses that fit our agenda and publish it.
Sad – you guys really have to lift your game. No wonder you are 22% behind. Im guessing if more read Red Alert the gap would be larger.
Another project started under Labour.
No news on any real projects other than ’studies’ started by Joyce.
Looks like the speed wobbles with their announcements last week has seen them send other announcements to the bell tower to hide for a while
cutting gold card entitlements is disgusting.
Grant, or it might have been fallout from Joyce’s speech to the Northern EMA where he took the piss out of consulting Auckland mayors over appointments to his transport CCO after having promised to do so the day before, according to the Herald? Interesting the speech has remained secret, just like the deliberations of his Auckland transport CCO will be. Maybe local roading decisions will be made by text message from the Board room?
I feel that Steven Joyce is an intelligent and capable chap, but totally unsuited to Politics, which is quite a different beast than the commercial world he is accustomed to.
Here in the commercial world you can sound out a situation and if enough people disagree then we move on to plan B..
But I think that we in NZ like our politicians to be decisive and not wishy wshy…
cutting gold card entitlements is disgusting.
Yeah, it’s hard to think of a better way to spend taxpayer money than giving out free boat trips to Waiheke and bus tours of the Martinborough vineyards.
If the microscope goes on public transport for seniors because its ‘too expensive’. Maybe year long paid sabbaticals for tertiary sector is ‘too expensive’ as well
Joyce had a pretty bad week last week.
1) Super gold card backdown.
2) Transport CCO mess that he’s created.
3) Made to look like an idiot supporting his holiday highway when everyone else supports the CBD raik tunnel.
4) Once again made to look silly when it was pointed out his tertiary education reforms would lead to easier courses.
I’m sure there were more….
@Biker. Hilarious. I think if you look at my record of posting there is a fair bit of substance, mixed in with sport, lighthearted commentary and newsworthy events. You can make your own mind up which category this fits into.
BK hasnt heard of the by-election result which showed nationals support is very ’shallow’
And once again Danyl shows how even mildly intelligent people can fall for a basic spin trick like taking a single anomalous example and amplifying it into a generalisation.
Because really Danyl, the only options are no gold card at all or the gross national product being poured into free ferry rides and the country going bankrupt.
Peter dont by lulled into thinking Mr Joyce isnt a political animal he is, through and through. He’s just used to pulling strings and not having to front things, it’s that part of politics he is struggling with.
IB is right . Sure a few people are having the day to Waiheke from Auckland , but most would be seniors living on Waiheke and coming to the city. I guess the Martinborough situation is the same. The locals are getting into the big smoke for good reasons but National is portrayed them all as ‘day trippers’
Deleted off thread Trevor
Texting and emailing isnt just a Steven Joyce thing though – I find nothing more offensive than attending a select committee where the whole bunch of MPs are staring intently at their BlackBerry’s
And once again Danyl shows how even mildly intelligent people can fall for a basic spin trick like taking a single anomalous example and amplifying it into a generalisation.
Because really Danyl, the only options are no gold card at all or the gross national product being poured into free ferry rides and the country going bankrupt.
The way I see it, you guys are defending the gold card on the same grounds you defend other forms of goverment spending, like health or education or RNZ. But the gold card isn’t like those – it serves no wider social or economic purpose, it was an election bribe promised by Winston Peters: ‘Vote for me and I’ll give you free stuff and make someone else pay for it.’ Labour agreed to it and maybe that was the right thing to do and maybe it wasn’t, but now that the government has changed there’s no reason to maintain the bribe. Ditto goes for his massive cash payouts to the racing industry that Labour also went along with. They were electoral bribes, pure and simple. Maybe there’s some policy or ideological argument for giving pensioners millions of dollars in free ferry rides to luxury beach resorts (this isn’t an ‘anomaly’, btw, it’s more than 10% of the total cost of the scheme) but I have yet to hear it.
Danyl, I suspect there’s a little bit of that gen-x prejudice against boomers going on here. I’d be interested to see know if you thought interest free student loans should be revoked. Or the first home buyer subsidies.
I like the idea of a society where pensioners can afford to commute from their homes to the city. Or should pensioners on Waiheke sell up and move into town or exile themselves?
You’ve either got no idea about Auckland or you’re being dishonest when you characterise Waiheke as “a luxury beach resort”. There are some amazingly wealthy people there but there are also a lot of people who dropped out to island life back when it was cheap and who couldn’t afford to retire in their own homes if they had to pay the full cost of getting to the city.
An easy solution would be to restrict the ferry gold card discount to islanders only.
I say good on Joeasauraus if he wants subsidised trips on public transport!
Joyce loves the cell phone just watch him in a koru lounge talking so loudly you may think he owns the place and not respecting his position, which he lets hang out publicly.
I suspect there’s a little bit of that gen-x prejudice against boomers going on here. I’d be interested to see know if you thought interest free student loans should be revoked. Or the first home buyer subsidies.
Maybe it’s prejudice, but I’m also aware that boomers are the wealthiest age demographic in our society and +65s are the only people that, by definition, cannot be living in poverty. Throwing free money at them because they voted for Winston Peters just seems like REALLY bad policy.
I like the idea of a society where pensioners can afford to commute from their homes to the city. Or should pensioners on Waiheke sell up and move into town or exile themselves?
That’s your argument? You ‘like’ the idea? I like the idea that the wealthiest people in the country pay for their own damn ferry rides and we spend that money on something worthwhile. $18 million a year pays salary and opex for ten surgeons or literally dozens of teachers.
Are you really claiming that there no retirees in NZ who live in poverty?
As for the opportunity cost, I’d suggest there are other areas of spending that would be much better sources of cuts such as the billion dollars being spent on Whanau Ora or the $35m being spent on subsidising private schools.
Making it harder for granny to catch the bus or ferry into town to get her MRI isn’t exactly at the top of my list for cuts. Perhaps you should be reappraising yours.
Danyl in 12 months time or more perhaps we can talk about the bribe paid to ACT, when the utilities of SuperCity are either sold off or under the control of large salaried friends of the right, that too would meet your criteria of an election bribe?
We know that large salaries will abound on the CCO’s, what we don’t know at this stage is who willbegetting them.
Do you actually know that the gold card hasn’t mobilised people who would otherwise be immobilised, and is it just transport you object to?
Are you really claiming that there no retirees in NZ who live in poverty?
I’m sure there are some retirees who have it rough, but their super is linked to a percentage of the minimum wage that ensures that their income is above the poverty rate.
As for the opportunity cost, I’d suggest there are other areas of spending that would be much better sources of cuts such as the billion dollars being spent on Whanau Ora or the $35m being spent on subsidising private schools.
I’d probably cut all of that spending as well – but that’s not the subject under discussion. You can’t actually justify or defend the travel subsidy so you’re trying to change the subject.
A percentage of $12.55 per hour? Surely many are more than having it “rough”?
To be clear Daryl, are you espousing the cutting of the Waiheke portion or the whole thing? It appears (not necessarily so) that you are relying on the Waiheke issue to show the whole thing has no merit.
Given these are off peak times, isn’t this a good way to flow money through the economy, which is what the Govt is going to use GST and other taxs to do, “neutral” but changing where and how the money flows tohel the flow of the economy. Aren’t these measures achieving a similar thing.
Can you comment on the associated benefits, health, mobility, mentalhealth, or is that irrelevant?
Clarification – I wrote:
their super is linked to a percentage of the minimum wage that ensures that their income is above the poverty rate.
When (obviously) I meant to write:
their super is linked to a percentage of the average wage that ensures that their income is above the poverty rate.
To be clear Daryl, are you espousing the cutting of the Waiheke portion or the whole thing? It appears (not necessarily so) that you are relying on the Waiheke issue to show the whole thing has no merit.
If there was some way to ensure that only those in need had their transport supplmented then yeah, the scheme might have some merit. No solution to that springs to mind, so as it is the scheme is simply a wealth transfer to the richest age-group in the country from everybody else.
isn’t this a good way to flow money through the economy, which is what the Govt is going to use GST and other taxs to do, “neutral” but changing where and how the money flows tohel the flow of the economy. Aren’t these measures achieving a similar thing.
You do know that this ‘trickle down’ theory is the heart of far-right economic thought? Give everything to the rich and it will ‘flow through’ to the rest of us!
Danyl
I know that trickle-down is BS, there is no strong evidence anywhere to support it. Despite it being institutued in many many places.
I’m also aware of the use of the scheme by those who can already afford to pay. It’s been a boon for some members of my family who have children on Waiheke and can now travel free to visit them.
IF we were told how the money has shaken down, beyond the Waiheke issue we could discuss this more certainly.
For example, how much is used for bus trips and by whom. Heck they are surveying/polling for every damned hting under the sun couldn’t they poll on this?
Danyl, you obviously don’t know many people living on national super – surviving on around $12,000 or so. You may own your own home but what if they need to paint the house – that’s $10,000, and many people have to employ people to do other maintenance because they can no longer do it themselves, and there are medical bills, and heating bills, and if they no longer drive spend a lot on taxis if they live far from a bus stop, or there is no public transport. They are likely to be doing unpaid child care too. So a day trip on the train into Wellington, or to Waiheke is a real treat, and good on them.
The tragic thing is that if we simply structures the management of public transport services better, the Super Gold Card would effectively cost nothing. The first question to ask is “where is that $18 million going?” The answer is straight to the profit margins of Fullers, Infratil and the PT operators. Have they improved the frequencies of off-peak public transport since Super Gold Card started? Nope, so the money is pure profit.
To make matters even worse, most off-peak PT is already subsidised: 50% by NZTA and 50% by the Regional Council. So the operators get to double-dip into the public trough. No wonder you see them advertising free off-peak travel like crazy.
The solution is to “gross-contract” all services so the Super Gold Card money simply goes back to the Regional Councils (or ARTA in Auckland’s case). This new money would either help improve services or offset other subsidies. Much better than it going straight to the profits of operators.
This solution was made possible by the Public Transport Management Act. The very Act Joyce wants to dismantle so his buddies at Infratil can keep double-dipping. What a farce.
Danyl, you obviously don’t know many people living on national super . . .
I do know a few academics who’ve retired. They’re on national super and a government super scheme and they have lucrative contracting jobs and (for some reason) they get to travel to Waiheke for free. Like I keep saying, this is not a poor demographic. If you have some alternative scheme that helps out the poorest people in this cohort I’d probably support it, but the gold-card subsidy wasn’t about helping the poor, it was about helping people who are mostly VERY comfortable in exchange for New Zealand First votes.
Several people I know use their gold card to travel to voluntary jobs. Without the card they would not be able to afford to do this.
Several people I know use their gold card to travel to voluntary jobs. Without the card they would not be able to afford to do this.
No doubt the Oneroa Life Saving Club is lucky to have them.
getting pensioners out and about is sound economics – doing nothing all day is the fast route to depression and dependancy, which cost us all a lot more in the long run.
Danyl has a point but doesn’t address with honesty the false dilemma he created. His subsequent comments are wrigglier, but amount to the assumption that because some rich old folk are getting something for free that they can afford to pay for, the whole cohort should be penalised.
This thinking is permeating much of the west as monetarist driven worries about budget overruns lead to the desire and intention to make substantial spending cuts: “quantitative easing” is definitely off the table, and what better way to support this process in NZ than to identify stereotypes like ‘boomers’ lard your comments with econspeak like ‘wealth transfers’ or dismissive remarks about trickle down, and promote false dichotomies like ferry rides versus opex and teachers?
Perhaps there is room for a third way, or fourth, fifth….?
One thing is certain: with fewer customers and clients, much of NZ small business will struggle even more. Perhaps we can be like California, Illinois etc and cut teacher wages by 5%, can pension schemes, reduce library (and some school) opening hours to 4 days out of 5?
And when an elderly mother has a bad fall trying to manage her own vacuuming InWellington as mine did recently, am I to pin the blame on some pensioners who enjoyed an ice-cream and a walk on the beach on Waiheke?
I do know a few academics who’ve retired. They’re on national super and a government super scheme and they have lucrative contracting jobs
That’s the demographic of your critical community? This explains so much. It also makes it very hard for me to ever take anything you say about politics seriously ever gain.
I know an academic who only has the Super no big pension scheme, he’s struggling, just had to have his bathroom replaced (yes HAD to, rotten floors, broken toilet) etc etc he’s well behind the 8-ball. Does this cancel out some of your demographic Danyl.
Okay so this post has 2 points: Steven Joyce’s cellphone etiquette and the gold card issue…
1) what’s good enough for Helen (texting during the Queen’s speech) is good enough for Steven Joyce. So what, it’s a non issue – I agree with Bikerkiwi, humour is one thing, but petty digs is just a waste of your no doubt valuable time.
2) The SuperGold card. I only ever liked it in principle and believe it was something Labour was using merely to drum up support. I don’t believe it was a policy that was really thought through in terms of the long term costs, especially with a recession looming. Free transport for non workers is hardly conducive to improving productivity.
Danyl: you have a point – Waikanae (part of the retirement capital of NZ – the Kapiti Coast) has the highest number of millionaires per capita in NZ. You have to wonder about the need for such benefits for people who own multiple properties (and are no doubt already getting their taxes back), drive a Mercedes and/or are getting $30k or so in INTEREST per year.
Those with no savings and living from super pay check to super pay check – yes by all means, give them free NECESSARY transport.
Those who have loads of savings & millions of dollars worth in assets – no. Labour has already given them a tax break for 9 years, they don’t need any more government benefits.
Further, the SuperGold card is for ALL NZ superannuitants – including those who have only been resident in NZ for 10 years (minimum qualification) or but for our Social Security Agreements with the UK, Australia and Canada wouldn’t even be eligible for Super here!
This means that people who have never worked a day in their life in this country are eligible for this hand out.
So if Steven Joyce finds a way to pull back the cost of this card then I’m all for it.
P.s in response to people’s comments about those superannuitants who are receiving the super in conjuction with working income – this is part and parcel of the criteria. They are getting NZ because they qualify as of right. It is not an income tested benefit (unless of course they have included their not-quite-65 year old spouse) so the fact that they work is irrelevant.
This means that people who have never worked a day in their life in this country are eligible for this hand out.
…which makes a bit of a lie of the supergoldcard website. The blurb on that site says its “in recognition of the contribution they have made, and continue to make to New Zealand society.”
Yeah, but that ignores the fact that there are many dinosaurs in this country who have worked and slaved for decades in NZ. They deserve their gold card!
Sorry, but does anyone else read Danyl’s comment about retirees and trickle down and think there’s a wicked incontinence pun there?
By the way, I HATE the term “optics”. I groan whenever I hear it…and when in Wellington, I hear it quite a bit. I also hear public servants trying to “land” things before the “optics” go bad. What is this? Avionics school?
LOL
“Maybe there’s some policy or ideological argument for giving pensioners millions of dollars in free ferry rides to luxury beach resorts”
Yes this was a case where the announcement came with the spin (no leaks here). Problem being that Joyce mentioned Waiheke and Wairarapa. Someone fill me in here, I’m not from Auckland so am unfamiliar with the road link to the island? Knowing that ferrys cost the most maybe we should run an alternative bus route? As for Wairarapa trains these only run in peak hours, so the only cost could be the weekend. I don’t imagine that the cost of this service would be millions?
If we want to talk about incomes and working oldies, then this should be addressed discussing super itself.
Bea – yes I agree. I would love to know the exact stats on how many of our retirees were actually tax payers who have paid their fair share – that is, I would love to know how many were born & worked elsewhere and how many are in a position of considerable financial comfort. I would like these 2 groups excluded from such benefits.
Actually on second thoughts maybe not the former group; I think the nature of the social security agreement with the UK especially is that if any of us go to the UK and retire there, their government treats us as if we have lived and worked in the UK all our lives. Reciprocal does after all mean reciprocal.
Unpleasantly Odouriferous – funny and yes I agree re the use of “optics”
Hey it’s not all about luxury ferry rides, what about Ma and Pa Averagsaurus?
By the sounds of it, you don’t live in a housing NZ area, full of pensioners. Don’t live in a rich area but see poor pensioners around. No banks, except Kiwibank, unless you travel on bus to town.
Sorry but open your eyes. Yes there are well off pensioners and then there are just as many really poor pensioners.
@ A Mother – you’re right, I ride the bus with many elderly ordinary people.
Means testing the card? Really?
The irony Tracy is that means testing is a bad word, mainly because the 4 Labor(ACT) and Boldger/Richardson took it to heart that the levels had to be set mean. Ironic because the nats are looking to Aus where pension is pushed out to 67 (where parliamentary pension unaffected) rather than strip the Keys/English and others who dont need top ups. Retirement home care is also asset tested, instead of a fairer income test.
Don’t test the card, just the super. But as they say -tamper at your peril, the gerries vote, students don’t.