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	<title>Comments on: John Banks and Auckland City Council offends Tangata whenua</title>
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	<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/</link>
	<description>A blog written by Labour MPs</description>
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		<title>By: samuel  welsh</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-182817</link>
		<dc:creator>samuel  welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-182817</guid>
		<description>jhon banks disapoints us all a rich useless man is he
and most of the buggers in auckland councl too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jhon banks disapoints us all a rich useless man is he<br />
and most of the buggers in auckland councl too.</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-57502</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 May 2010 03:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-57502</guid>
		<description>Can anyone give an example where Banks has worked to imporove the lot of Asian immigrants in AKL?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone give an example where Banks has worked to imporove the lot of Asian immigrants in AKL?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-37223</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-37223</guid>
		<description>George. I apologise if you took my last post the wrong way. I wasn&#039;t trying to kick veterans in the guts. I have a lot of respect for veterans. I&#039;m an ex-TF soldier myself, not a veteran though. 

As Field Marshall Montgomery once said, when politicians no longer do the job, they send in soldiers. 

That&#039;s why I&#039;m concerned with the government sending our SAS to Afghanistan...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George. I apologise if you took my last post the wrong way. I wasn&#8217;t trying to kick veterans in the guts. I have a lot of respect for veterans. I&#8217;m an ex-TF soldier myself, not a veteran though. </p>
<p>As Field Marshall Montgomery once said, when politicians no longer do the job, they send in soldiers. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m concerned with the government sending our SAS to Afghanistan&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36616</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 06:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36616</guid>
		<description>Martin - my father fought alongside the ANZACs in North Africa and Italy.  He was at Tobruk and El Alamein and Monte Cassino.  The freedom they were all fighting for wasn&#039;t only for the benefit of &#039;Mother England&#039;.  The Japanese were well on the way to New Zealand, and with a population of fewer than two million at the time without outside help New Zealand could have ended up as Japan&#039;s farm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin &#8211; my father fought alongside the ANZACs in North Africa and Italy.  He was at Tobruk and El Alamein and Monte Cassino.  The freedom they were all fighting for wasn&#8217;t only for the benefit of &#8216;Mother England&#8217;.  The Japanese were well on the way to New Zealand, and with a population of fewer than two million at the time without outside help New Zealand could have ended up as Japan&#8217;s farm.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36602</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 05:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36602</guid>
		<description>George, I&#039;m not naive. I know that the majority of NZers agree with you and Sean. I have family that have the same idea. I used to aswell. And in principle you are right. 

It&#039;s just that the Treaty was signed, and as long as the government recognises it (ie it&#039;s legal) than that is what we have. It is enshrined in our legislation, Sir Geoffrey Palmer sorted that out as Attorney-General. The problem was that he didn&#039;t define what the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi are!!

The thing that concerns me George, is when you have people that cry wolf everytime something that is Maori occurs. This is the thing that really frightens me in New Zealand. It&#039;s as though they&#039;ve got nothing better to do than to kick Maori metaphorically in the guts. And when you have a non-Maori majority that have the same attitude, the prospects don&#039;t look good, regardless of the one person, one equal vote. 

Just remember, as I said about the 28th Battalion fighting for NZ&#039;s freedoms, as the King was the HOS of your country as well as ours, they fought for YOURS. I regard sacrifice as one of the highest forms of honour and entitlement, considerably more so than a man in a yellow jacket throwing his toys out of the cot because he disagreed with the Royal Commission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George, I&#8217;m not naive. I know that the majority of NZers agree with you and Sean. I have family that have the same idea. I used to aswell. And in principle you are right. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just that the Treaty was signed, and as long as the government recognises it (ie it&#8217;s legal) than that is what we have. It is enshrined in our legislation, Sir Geoffrey Palmer sorted that out as Attorney-General. The problem was that he didn&#8217;t define what the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi are!!</p>
<p>The thing that concerns me George, is when you have people that cry wolf everytime something that is Maori occurs. This is the thing that really frightens me in New Zealand. It&#8217;s as though they&#8217;ve got nothing better to do than to kick Maori metaphorically in the guts. And when you have a non-Maori majority that have the same attitude, the prospects don&#8217;t look good, regardless of the one person, one equal vote. </p>
<p>Just remember, as I said about the 28th Battalion fighting for NZ&#8217;s freedoms, as the King was the HOS of your country as well as ours, they fought for YOURS. I regard sacrifice as one of the highest forms of honour and entitlement, considerably more so than a man in a yellow jacket throwing his toys out of the cot because he disagreed with the Royal Commission.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36594</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36594</guid>
		<description>Martin - I think we&#039;re always going to disagree on this one.  My only expectations when living in the UK were to be treated as a citizen equal under the law with all others.

I do feel that before any meaningful discourse can be held on the position and status of maori within NZ in the 21st century we need a sensible definition of what &#039;maori&#039; means.  We certainly don&#039;t at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin &#8211; I think we&#8217;re always going to disagree on this one.  My only expectations when living in the UK were to be treated as a citizen equal under the law with all others.</p>
<p>I do feel that before any meaningful discourse can be held on the position and status of maori within NZ in the 21st century we need a sensible definition of what &#8216;maori&#8217; means.  We certainly don&#8217;t at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Seán</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36588</link>
		<dc:creator>Seán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36588</guid>
		<description>Tracey - like I said already, the SuperCity point you made earlier was the one I didn&#039;t think was a specific election promise. Seems previous govt were heading down that path as well. Therefore I can&#039;t play this hypothetical game with you.

The introduction of all laws is a complex process. The SuperCity one is particularly complex because there are so many stakeholders, so many different paths to go down, and so many people with a view on how it should be done. Obviously it&#039;s impossible for the government to make all parties happy on this one. Like you, I might not be a fan of some of the finer aspects, but this is to be expected. Overall it is a major step in the right direction, and any bumps can be ironed out down the track as they become known.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracey &#8211; like I said already, the SuperCity point you made earlier was the one I didn&#8217;t think was a specific election promise. Seems previous govt were heading down that path as well. Therefore I can&#8217;t play this hypothetical game with you.</p>
<p>The introduction of all laws is a complex process. The SuperCity one is particularly complex because there are so many stakeholders, so many different paths to go down, and so many people with a view on how it should be done. Obviously it&#8217;s impossible for the government to make all parties happy on this one. Like you, I might not be a fan of some of the finer aspects, but this is to be expected. Overall it is a major step in the right direction, and any bumps can be ironed out down the track as they become known.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36570</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 04:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36570</guid>
		<description>@George. I&#039;ll just re-iterate what I said earlier. Maori have a right, not a privilege, to have a voice at the table. The only people who should get rid of that right are Maori, simple. 

I&#039;m sure that when you lived in Britain and someone would have taken your rights away you wouldn&#039;t have liked it. So ditto.

I don&#039;t see how just having Maori seats creates a culture of divisiveness. As Tracey said, the stats for non-Maori are better than they are for Maori. So you&#039;re in the group that&#039;s better off aren&#039;t you?

That said I&#039;m opposed to Maori-only things in general institutions, this is where I think problems could lie. Just like I&#039;m opposed to Maori owning the foreshore and seabed, because I&#039;m for assets being owned by the State. ACT and part of National don&#039;t agree with this. 

It&#039;s when it&#039;s Maori institutions (and the Maori roll) that Maori have rights. Because if there weren&#039;t Maori institutions, the culture would be wiped out. You&#039;re not going to have non-Maori advancing the issues of Maori, simple as that. So surely it&#039;s better to have Maori things which are accountable to Maori. 

I believe the way to deal with Maori and Pasifika issues isn&#039;t through treating everyone the same (on the general system) but through Whanau Ora. Take a look at what I said on the other blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@George. I&#8217;ll just re-iterate what I said earlier. Maori have a right, not a privilege, to have a voice at the table. The only people who should get rid of that right are Maori, simple. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that when you lived in Britain and someone would have taken your rights away you wouldn&#8217;t have liked it. So ditto.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how just having Maori seats creates a culture of divisiveness. As Tracey said, the stats for non-Maori are better than they are for Maori. So you&#8217;re in the group that&#8217;s better off aren&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>That said I&#8217;m opposed to Maori-only things in general institutions, this is where I think problems could lie. Just like I&#8217;m opposed to Maori owning the foreshore and seabed, because I&#8217;m for assets being owned by the State. ACT and part of National don&#8217;t agree with this. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s when it&#8217;s Maori institutions (and the Maori roll) that Maori have rights. Because if there weren&#8217;t Maori institutions, the culture would be wiped out. You&#8217;re not going to have non-Maori advancing the issues of Maori, simple as that. So surely it&#8217;s better to have Maori things which are accountable to Maori. </p>
<p>I believe the way to deal with Maori and Pasifika issues isn&#8217;t through treating everyone the same (on the general system) but through Whanau Ora. Take a look at what I said on the other blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracey</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36487</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36487</guid>
		<description>The thing is Sean, IF voting for National gave them a mandate (say the SuperCity was an election promise)it only gives them a mandate to the extent they shared the detail, yes? 

I have no problem with changes to Auckland Councils, I have no problem with the corporatisation (in parts) of activities. 

IF the Royal Commission Report is what the promise was based on then that is what is implemented under the mandate, not selected parts?

The detail is very important. The CCO&#039;s are the heart of the changes interms of the way things will be done, accountability, appointments and so on. They are crucial to the plan. Ministers make appointments all the time. Noproblem with that BUT here they are making appointments which would otherwise have come via an accountable elective process. THAT is a major change.

Consultation is all well and good except when the driver and others say at the outset &quot;we wont be changing X or Y&quot; regardless of the outcomeof the consultation.

Aucklander or no, I urge anyone on this issue to go and read about the CCO&#039;s, their powers etc... It&#039;s important and it could be coming to a town or city near you.

The media is only recently focusing on them but fo rme, they are the crux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is Sean, IF voting for National gave them a mandate (say the SuperCity was an election promise)it only gives them a mandate to the extent they shared the detail, yes? </p>
<p>I have no problem with changes to Auckland Councils, I have no problem with the corporatisation (in parts) of activities. </p>
<p>IF the Royal Commission Report is what the promise was based on then that is what is implemented under the mandate, not selected parts?</p>
<p>The detail is very important. The CCO&#8217;s are the heart of the changes interms of the way things will be done, accountability, appointments and so on. They are crucial to the plan. Ministers make appointments all the time. Noproblem with that BUT here they are making appointments which would otherwise have come via an accountable elective process. THAT is a major change.</p>
<p>Consultation is all well and good except when the driver and others say at the outset &#8220;we wont be changing X or Y&#8221; regardless of the outcomeof the consultation.</p>
<p>Aucklander or no, I urge anyone on this issue to go and read about the CCO&#8217;s, their powers etc&#8230; It&#8217;s important and it could be coming to a town or city near you.</p>
<p>The media is only recently focusing on them but fo rme, they are the crux.</p>
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		<title>By: Seán</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/03/11/john-banks-and-auckland-city-council-offends-tangata-whenua/comment-page-2/#comment-36485</link>
		<dc:creator>Seán</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=12078#comment-36485</guid>
		<description>Tracey - no I haven&#039;t really looked into it but it does seem you are getting quite specific now. I guess cabinet appointed means the democracy is less direct. 

Yes, I never implied they implemented the Royal Commission report in full (I just said &quot;following on from&quot;). Do you think they should have? As I understood it, it was changed after further consultations, not that everybodys submission was included in the final law of course!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracey &#8211; no I haven&#8217;t really looked into it but it does seem you are getting quite specific now. I guess cabinet appointed means the democracy is less direct. </p>
<p>Yes, I never implied they implemented the Royal Commission report in full (I just said &#8220;following on from&#8221;). Do you think they should have? As I understood it, it was changed after further consultations, not that everybodys submission was included in the final law of course!</p>
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