Remember Key had a secret plan to end illegal whaling by Japan which he was going to check out with Clinton when she was to visit here.
It is now out for us all to see.
But then again the National Party has a history of selling out on widely shared kiwi principles. I had hoped we had got to the point where our Prime Minister never genuflected kowtowed to overseas interests.
Shame on you John Key.
Bleep me!
What a gutless and ineffective move! 
That’s not going to stop whaling! I bet the whalers will laugh at us!
I could not see in the article where Key said he wanted whaling legalised.
That is pulling a very long bow Trevor.
Pentwig read it again, especially here
..proposal under negotiation would allow Japan, Norway and Iceland to openly hunt whales ..
McCully is the sock puppet on this as Key is allready on his next broken promise of cuts in the public service
Trevor
Whaling is illegal now and yet whales are still being harvested.
I don’t see that the PM is trying to have whaling legallised, better managed certainly.
As for “Kowtowed to overseas interests” the last time I recall seeing that, some French agents got let out of prison and sent to some island after committing an act of terorisim at the Auckland wharf, remind me again Trevor which Govt was in charge of that fiasco
Unlike Labour selling Telecom cheaply to overseas interests…how’d that work out?
So Sideoiler and Mark that makes it right.? And remember Key on nukes, Key on Iraq.
No NZ rep on whaling commission would back such a proposal without authority. And that authority would have come from a Cabinet Committee chaired by Key.
So cmon Labour, get up there on the headlines and tell us what you will do different! Im so sick of being told by people who dont follow politics that both major political parties are the same… I really appreciate Trevor how you are so active on blogs and getting the Labour voice out there (i.e the standard). Dont forget that Blogs create news!
This government would be laughable if it wasn’t so real. This is really horrible.
Actually Sideoiler if one wanted to be pedantic it wasn’t an act of terroism but an act of war
but hey labour would like it if all the voters in NZ suddenly had amnesia about certain periods of time (like when they’re in power)
Thanks for finally coming out and saying something. At least its an improvement on the deafening silence of the Greens
Thanks for coming out and saying something about the whaling. More than the Greens have done
What is wrong with him?
I’m so shocked that Key would even consider that.
Hmmm, so I guess Key would deal with illegal drug use in a similar fashion…..by making it all perfectly legal.
The thing everybody has to remember here is that the Japanese have ignored the moratorium increasingly over the last decade or so; what makes ANYONE think that they would honour a commitment to stop whaling in some yet to be decided time frame in the future. They would be more than happy to kill more whales now, and when the proposed ‘negotiated’ time comes to an end, guess what…they will ignore that as well. And how many thousands of whales will they have killed, legally by then? This can’t happen.
Yes! Thank you!
Makes me sick.
There are lines that should not be crossed, this is one of those.
This goes against what it means to be a Kiwi, just like the anti nuke stance.
Why are you people only concerned with Japan?
What about Norway, Iceland, Greenland, the Faroes, Russia and probably Canada.
In these countries whales are a vital part of their existence.
The whole issue is so hugely contentious that an absolute ban could never be enforced.
A moderated catch is the only solution.
Trevor – have another go and try not to be racist Trevor
Nothing gets the left going like a little bit of Japanese bashing, Mallard knows it. “This goes against what it means to be a Kiwi” lol since when? Since Greenpeace told us we were against it? We were one of the most prolific whaling nations, nz was founded on whaling, we stopped eventually in the 30’s only because we’d killed them all. Here’s what you do, stop driving Japanese cars, stop buying widescreen Japanese tv’s, stop trading with Japan. No? Come on if you really are against this Trevor put that policy out there, a trade embargo on Japan. Or are you going to be like Key and realise we live in a interconnected World where even our friends do worse things than Japan (Guantanamo Bay?) but where one needs friends not enemies?
Trevor – I think you are being overly sensitive if you thought my comment was racist. Whaling in Japan may have begun as early as the 12th century. (Wikipedia). That is a fact not an opinion. No NZer likes whaling – but we should not make judgements on another culture if they hold an opposing view. I do not like that the japanese hide behind the guise of “science” to justify whaling – and wish they would be more open and honest about what we all know they do.
Or did you take objection to me noting that it was ex Labour PM Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey Palmer who negotiated and represented NZ in coming to the agreement? A little close to home??
Tsk, tsk. We should all ask ourselves – what would (the Herald lets not do personal attacks on journalists Trevor) make of that nice man Mr. Key’s whaling plan? Why, like his tax cuts it’s all about the politics of aspiration! John Key wants the good people of Japan to aspire to catch so many whales that they will eventually get sick of eating them, and leave the survivors alone. And, like with the tax cuts, anyone who questions this aspirational goal for the Japanese by supporting the those who will actually pay for it are just engaging in the politics of envy.
At least, that is how (the Herald Trevor) will see it.
“So Sideoiler and Mark that makes it right.?”
It doesn’t make it right but one may as well talk about this in an informed manner. Key is not making whaling legal, it already is legal and was so under Labour when the number of whales killed rose dramatically.
We’re lucky we have a former Labour Prime Minister who actually knows what he’s taking about as the NZ negotiator.
Goods knows what sort of mess things would be in if anyone from the present incarnation of Labour had any involvement.
And good to see the National govt yet again able to work constructively with the Obama administration. Hilary Clinton is a bright cookie.
By the way, what was it like kowtowing to Bush over Afghanistan?
Neil and Monty. Geoff Palmer is one of NZ’s best lawyers, he give advice, takes instructions and argues his brief. Trying to pin Key’s stupid “secret” plan on him just shows your ignorance of how government works.
And Neil the decision to go into Afghanistan was the right thing to do at the time – or at least it seemed to be. It is not the right thing to do now.
And think carefully about the contrast between Labour and Key on nuclear weapons and Iraq before raising those topics or the videos of smile and wave will have to be downloaded for a return season.
If whaling is legalised for some countries then others will want in. Do you think America would stand by and not want its share of the profit to be made? Once the original investment is made in ships, marketing, etc, there will be no turning back and whaling will be left to “market forces”. What I really object to is all these Northern Hemisphere countries coming down here and raiding the Southern Hemisphere’s whale sanctury.
Pentwig does Norway and Iceland send ships to the Southern Oceans for whaling like Japan does. ( the Japanese do a lot in northern waters was well)
Ghwnz
Not as far as I know but both certainly poach toothfish down there so nothing would surprise me.
Janice
USA already allows indigineous people to hunt whales.
There is an interesting piece on sciblog.co.nz
“Trying to pin Key’s stupid “secret” plan on him just shows your ignorance of how government works.”
it’s not Key’s plan, it was put foward by a number of countries including the Obama administration. I don’t believe for a minute Palmer would be the type of person to advocate a plan he personally disagreed with. Interesting that you think he would.
If the plan means less whales being killed then that’s progress. Ending the charade of scientific whaling and stopping whaling in the southerm oceans would be significant achievements given that up til now teh IWC has not been able to stop th enumber of whales killed increasing.
Pity Labour has to reduce this issue to a few populist sound bites. Take a leaf out of Palmer’s book and put foward a thoughtful case.
“It is not the right thing to do now.”
what changed? The person the White House? I would have thought Obama would have a more compelling case for involvement in Afghanistan than Bush.
Still, at least with National we have a govt that can work with Obama on issues such as Afghanistan and whaling. I’m sure both Obama and Clinton are very very good partners to work with.
Like it or not whaling for scientific purposes is not illegal under the IWC rules.
Pentwig I agree I have yet to see Sea Shepherd or Greenpeace protesting the whale harvest by native peoples of the arctic circle.
Monty. “No NZer likes whaling” frankly I could care less about the issue. I would far rather see the same resources expended protecting our fisheries, harvesting our fish with NZ boats and crews, comming down hard on those that will flout quota laws, be they recreational or commercial fishermen.
I hope that does not come across as being rude Monty Id just rather you didn’t speak for me and others like me, and there are many.
Trevor Im not certain that “Sir” Geoff Palmer is one of our best lawyers, that he is New Zealands foremost constitutional expert is beyond question.
He will be obliged to present the current administrations position on whaling whether he or any of you like that position.
From the little Ive read on the issue the PM is trying to limit fishing in the whale sanctuary by giving a little elsewhere.
whaling will be left to “market forces”
Actually that’s not a bad idea at all.
For arguments sake, let’s say that 1,000 whales a year are caught by fishermen/researchers from Japan, Norway and Iceland.
We could set up an international quota system that allows any private company or government to bid a price for the right to catch one whale in a given a year. The right goes to the higest bidder, and the fee/price goes to, say, a UN unit tasked with maintenance of global whale sanctuaries.
The beauty of this system is that it allows anti-whaling groups and nations to corner part of the market and protect whales via unexercised rights. It also adds an additional cost which will be passed on to the end-consumer of whale product, and dampen demand.
Wasn’t there an Act guy who proposed Kentucky fried kiwi as a way of saving them too.
@ Neil – then what is his plan – I thought this was the one he gave to Clinton to push. If not what is it?
Wasn’t there an Act guy who proposed Kentucky fried kiwi as a way of saving them too.
Interesting thought experiment that one… If the alternatives are exclusively:
1) Extinction
2) KFK
Then I’d probably go with the tasty treat.
“so under Labour when the number of whales killed rose dramatically.”
:o !!! I’ve heard many nine years spiels, but this takes the cake. So, just how many whales did Labour kill when they were in power?
@ P hil – There’s always some crims out there who ignore quotas and then there will be even less whales to enjoy.
@Trevor – Yuck!
This is incredible – lets look at how well Key is representing us…
- Give into increasing whaling under the guise of ’scientific research’ – must be a heck of a carrot to give into this
- mine our conservation resources (and lets find out what we have so that offshore companies can come in and mine them so that kiwis get shafted, and once we know whats there, whats to stop our tiddly little country whose borders we realistically can not protect being over run for the minerals and resources hiding under our land – tough if we find its a really really valuable one the ‘world’ needs)
- sell off our resources
- encourage our brightest to go offshore
- line the pockets of the highest earners
- stuff up the education system
- shaft democracy (supercity etc)
- send our troops into a scrap they have no show of winning and is not under UN guidance (how long till they come home in a body bag? Will we care then I wonder?)
- trade off what it is to be kiwi for a quick buck
- etc etc
Oh yes, real proud to be a kiwi right now – not. Seems like everything I believe in for our country is all getting eroded and there is nothing we can do about it. But hey, we earnt some brownie points with people/countries who really don’t give a rats bottom about us, with no actual guarantee that we will get anything in return – heck of a gamble, don’t you think?
Thanks to all of you who decided to ‘give the other team a turn’ – nice one.
Axeman if you have a point to make, make it without being offensive. Clare
So?
When it’s wrong then of course we should. And whaling is wrong.
BTW, Cultural Relativism is a good tool for archaeologists but absolutely useless for determining what should or shouldn’t happen.
paul
That was rather hysterical and off topic – no reproach I notice.
Calm down or you will give yourself a heart attack.
Draco
Vegetarians/vegans say it is wrong for us to kill animals and eat their flesh. So if it is wrong (according to the vegs) should we desist?
Under 9 years of Labour Japan hunted whales, Labour tried to stop Japan hunting whales and failed
National is now trying a different tack to stop (or limit)the hunting of whales, why not wait and see what happens or suggest what Labour would do differently
Its quite easy to say whats wrong (said without a trace of irony) but much harder to say how to fix it
@ Mark , the different tact is to allow fishing of whales.
How is this better than try to stop it???
@Waterboy, Japan is already allowed to hunt whales
This way Japan can reduce the amount of whales hunted over time without losing face
Of course it may not work but whats happening at the moment (and for the last nine years) isn’t working either so I think we should give it a chance and see how it goes
Oh by the way according to the Herald:
“The number of whales slaughtered each year for science has risen steadily from 300 in 1990 to an expected 3000 this year.”
So I’d say its a big, fat failure about the measures to stop whaling so far and time for a new thougt process.
That process to include more progress and less empty words