Anne Tolley has the lightest workload of the national party front bench and a smaller portfolio load than any Minister of Education in the forty years I have been following politics.
I see from the local newspaper clippings that she is planning to do a few meetings at national party offices around the country to justify her pathetic development and implementation of her standards policy. Some aren’t big enough to take the parents from a whole class of kids. Talk about a chicken staying on safe ground. And I see from her otherwise light schedule that she is limiting her meetings to one hour – to avoid having to answer the pretty obvious questions.
My challenge to her is to spend a day with me on the NZEI bus. By all means bring along a couple of public servants to help her understand and if possible answer questions. And how about the President of the School Trustees as well – so the anger that many boards are feeling can be directed to them as well as trhe Minister.
In return I’m willing to spend a day with her – going from nat MP office to nat MP office – hearing from those who turn up there.
Come on Anne – how about it?
But I’m willing to wager a bottle of the best NZ wine that she doesn’t have the courage to defend her policy and pick up the challenge.
Trevor, Whats this I read in the Dom that Key and Tolley are not keeping notes at meetings? Don’t they have secretary’s?
I do think that there should be someone at each meeting to challenge the spin.
Been walking round at work with the NZEI petition and apart from the people who don’t have kids so dont follow the debate (they mostly sign after being informed) I have met some parents who all for them & consider they informed. They believe in private schools (staunch supporters), believe the reasons the nats are introducing, dont believe there is any assessment done in state school, don’t believe studies that say standards failed in other countries (”then why would the govt do this??”, but also don’t believe their school needs standards (Private schools too good to let kids fail). Ive told many to google the standards debate in UK to see the truth, but they say don’t need to already made up mind.
Jeremy
I shake my head at people without children choosing to consider it not worth their attention. I have no children and wont be having any, yet can absolutely see the importance of this issue for now and the future.
The Govt has done a super job convincing parents their children were not already being assessed. But then they convinced many they would “change” once elected.
Is there anyone out there who thinks Tolley is doing a good job.
LOL
A good job of drawing criticism away from Teflon-John maybe
Trev
many people think she is doing a good job because they support the national Standards as she and Teflon John are presenting it.
Trevor – Another comment I have received – I support Standards (believing that no assessment done, and there are bad teachers hiding in system maybe not 1/3 but some), but the government has made a hash of the sales job and introduction.
Tracy – I think (wonder) if people see it as not their call and use this to stop thinking about one more issue in their busy lives. Same I guess with me and the supercity. Finally it should be Aucklanders that choose, but I am disturbed at how the chance to choose has been taken away (regardless of opinions of right and wrong).
Thanks Jeremy – I think the real issue involves continuing to develop the school leadership that ensures the world leading assesment tools are used well and that the results are used for directing professional learning and if necessary for competency proceedings.
You may be right Jeremy. It’s always hard to get our priorities straight. I take your point but I cannot see why Auckland’s new model wont travel the country to other Council’s. I mean if it’s good enough for Auckland…. (wink)
national has always had more money to spin and manipulate and Public relationise their machinations better than Labour. National Standards are an example. I shudder to think how many millions of free advice the likes of M Boag have given national ( regardless of impact).
Trevor, with Mr and Mrs Average swallowing the NACT line on education, what chance the real issue will see the light of day? I speak to parents who genuinely believe that we are getting national Standards because we had NO assessment regime in schools at all.
Jeremy and Tracey – can you try and put Auckland comments on one of Phils Auckland posts in fututre. Ta.
Jeremy @ 1.07pm yesterday. Very very unusual approach. Notes are always taken so opinions recorded and decisions actioned. The OIA does however allow for applications based on memories of the meeting – and to ask for lists of who was present.
Is Tolley doing a good job? No.
@mother – is she doing a good job? Depends on how you look at it – for education, for students and for teachers and parents – NO – not at all – for Labour – she is doing a great job of mucking it all up. So, to give her credit where its due, if we look at how bad she is, shes doing a great job of being bad.
@paul and mother, I’m never sure what to think – if she was more effective and taken seriously by colleagues she would either do more damage or fend off budget cuts. I just can’t tell what drives her.
I beleive her ego drives her.
Even if she is wrong she won’t back down due to trying to save face.I’ve met people like her and they hate to be wrong, refuse to listen to anyone elses point of view, and her desire to be right is paramount above all else.
I think there are few people like that in the Nat govt, but that maybe for another link.
Trevor said – “I think the real issue involves continuing to develop the school leadership that ensures the world leading assesment tools are used well and that the results are used for directing professional learning and if necessary for competency proceedings”.
I think that this is some one to being right but still limited. All teachers need to be able to use assessment practices well to guide their teaching and children’s learning. School leaders need to use assessment practices well to maximise the probability of school improvement.
As to using assessment practices for competency proceedings this is shaky ground and requires great care. Teachers who are not assisting their children to achieve may be able to be identified by school wide assessment but as we have discussed in the past there are a whole lot of reasons that children don’t make the progress that is expected – e.g. poverty, lack of support from home, lack of cultural capital. It is the progress of children that counts every time.
@Paul. I agree with the lack of support from home and lack of cultural capital, but I find it hard to agree with the poverty statement.
@Linda. I’m sorry I didn’t read your post proberly, you said you wish they had a meeting in South Island. Not, they have a meeting in South Island.
Trevor- The point with Auck being I don’t have a live in the city. So for National Standards, a lot of future parents or even grandparents don’t have contact with schools and rely on the news to tell them what is happening in our schools. Even then they cant be bothered reading past the headline.
@Jeremy. Agreed. My Ex Mother Inlaw started saying that shes heard about National Standards and it will be interesting to see if they are going to brought in thinking they were a good idea and I turn around and told her that she talking to the wrong person and I don’t agree, told her the reasons why, then she looked shocked. I think I have always come across as being naive, since she met me 12yrs ago at age 18. Lol. I had alot to say on the subject and she didn’t know what to say. She did admit she she hasn’t read much on them and only really News Headlines.
My Dad on the other hand thinks that National Standards are a joke.
@Mother – Good man your Dad!
Jeremy and a mother – I think what you are highlighting is the difference between good research driven evidence based policy and crude focus group politics which ends up with slogans instead of policy. Most people given half an hour to look at Tolley’s policy reject it. But most people don’t look that carefully. And that is what Key is hoping for.
Well summarised Trevor.
Management by soundbite anyone?
Too true Trevor.
@Trev – thats the prob though is it not, that most people do not look past the headlines, and given so many in our media seem to be right wing supporters (ie Paul Henry) that sing the minister praises and liken Nat stds to the next coming, of course mainstream nz will look at this and think how wonderful it is – so how do we ensure there is good debate on the topic where the public in general have good information to base their assumptions on?
This is often the problem with big issues like this – there are always two sides, and with the media sucking up to the nats its little wonder that the debate is a little one sided. Not everyone knows about the public meetings or how to attend or if they can – thats the impt stuff that is not given any air time. Why have we not had one of the current affairs programmes take a balanced look at this policy – the ramifications from it are huge, you would think one of them would be keen to really look at it in depth…
@Paul3 – agreed that we would be on very dodgy grounds if we used assessment as the only picture regarding teacher competency – in saying that, it does provide a part in the wider picture. It would alarm me if a teacher was not using assessment to inform teaching and learning programmes, and next steps. The question I would ask any teacher not using assessment (either at all or in an ad hoc way – and we both know there are some that need a shake up) is how do you know your students are achieving and where they are at (and where to take them next) if there is not assessment to assist this? As you know, assessment is a critical element in a teachers and a schools, development – so ensuring our teachers are using assessment appropriately (and know how to use the data once it is collected in a meaningful way – both formatively and summatively) is an important element of prof dev. I know Nat stds won’t address this – it may – and I emphasise may – highlight it, but it sure as eggs won’t fix it. As I see it, Nat stds are a bit like a punitive measure, when policy should be preventative and assistive.
@paul
I’ve been waiting for 60mins or 20/20 or some other current affairs program to do something like that to.
@paul Yes and Yes
@ A Mother – this is a really hard issue to get into even half an hour. I’ve spoken to a couple of mainly parents groups recently taken 40+ minutes before starting questions and still felt I had barely scratched surface of the issue.
True. There is a lot to it.
NZ will see Tolley’s true colours sooner or later one would hope. I live and hope anyway.
Off topic but has the Privacy Commission come up with a verdict yet on Paula Bennett? It been 7-8 months now hasn’t it? I’m hoping one falls then the rest will come crashing down.
A mother – poverty has a massive impact on achievement. The whole school decile system is based mostly on income. It is not the lack of money but rather the lack of quality food, warm housing, books in homes, parents working all sorts of low wage jobs and not having enough time with kids, lack of experiences for the kids (everything costs money). Not to say that many children from poor families do well – just that it is harder for them to do so – they start behind their peers – hence decile 1-3 schools being more likely to be at the foot of most school rankings.
In terms of some decent debate about this type of issue all the more reason to support National radio and a Charter for TVNZ. Charter gone – Nat Radio under threat – any coincidence?
I was bought up on the DPB, my mother was on and off the DPB as she did contract or temp work. This is why I’m a little defencive on that subject.
We had books in the home (be it library books, they were still books) and my Mum took us to the toy library at preschool age, as trying to keep up with my demand of puzzles would have sent her broke (I remember I was allowed 5-7 out a fortnight). We were supported in our education. My mother is the reason why I stuck it out so long with my childrens father, as I saw how hard it was but also the reason why I knew I could do it on my own if need be.
Around 1991 when I was in Form 1, the benefits were slashed and not many jobs around is when I found I didn’t do well in school. Parents putting their ideas in their childrens heads that Solo parents are low life’s caused me to be bullied over the fact that I lived at that time in a state house. My shoes stolen and Nike written on them then returned is just one example. Every day it was something until I ended up learning how to lock my bedroom door so I wouldn’t have to go. Worked until Mum threw the broom away and locked the mop in the shed. The teacher used to stand in front of the class and say that anyone could get a job, they are just lazy if they didn’t, didn’t help much.(Hmmm sound like anything happening in NZ at the moment?)
I changed to a lower decial school after that year and did really well. Even though I had a wasted year where I didn’t learn much except how to survive and not cry in front of the others, how I never cried is beyond me. Resorted back to primary school days where I read on the steps instead of joining in on the play. For very different reasons, I just sat in the library and read. I found this particularly hard as I have always been very self critical. Having others critical of me for something that wasn’t my fault so couldn’t correct was very difficult to deal with at age 11.
So maybe you are right about poverty having a massive impact on achievement, though for me it was more attitude of others rather than lack of food, or support from home.
I think I have just headed off the topic.
Referring back to the following comment:
(Most people given half an hour to look at Tolley’s policy reject it. But most people don’t look that carefully. And that is what Key is hoping for.)
New comment: If people do look carefully Key could always do another Australian Woman’s Weekly Interview; Hear the collective sigh: “Aww that John Key – what a nice guy”.
it was nice to see some Onslow College students participating in today’s Johnsonville community meeting with the Minister of Education. I would imagine they were left with questions unanswered as was I.
Some questions that were not fully answered by local list MP Katrina Shanks or the Minister of Education:
1. Katrina the other day at a community meeting you indicated the government was looking to rationalise the number of school boards. You gave the example of Newlands with four schools in close proximity -Do they need a separate board for each school?
2. This seems to defy the Tomorrow’s Schools concept of community responsibility for schools.? is there an intention to rationalise school boards by installing one administrative board for a cluster of schools and attaching learning brokers to the individual institution?
3.Where does this leave principals?
@ A Mother – my comment was for you but got bumped by a moderated comment.
Tolley will hold a community meeting at the Lincoln Bowling Club at 7pm today. People really should get there and let her know (again) about their concerns,
that was years ago Spud, it did help shape the person I have become though. I take those type of experiences with me and will use them to make me a better teacher so don’t regret anything.
Tolley is a disgrace and so is her total inaccurate media reporting about how well the public meetings are going and how much she is enjoying them! Not true! The woman should be nominated for an Oscar! She is having little success and the real truth will eventually overwhelm this incompetent Minister. Show us the educational research that provides evidence that National Standards will improve educational outcomes Ms Tolley. Go to the meetings and ask that over and over again. We all know that she cannot as their is none. There is much about the failures of them though.
The NZSTA (New Zealand School Trustees Association) is supposed to represent schools Boards of Trustees. Through its president Lorraine Kerr it has been a keen supporter of the introduction of National Standards and its publications have strongly supported their implementation.
There was a mild furore recently in Northland when the local branch attempted to have a ‘consultation meeting’ around the Standards and sent out invitations specifically excluding school principals from attending. This was, embarrassingly for NZSTA, later explained as an administrative error and the meeting, including some principals took place Thursday evening in Whangarei.
Mrs Kerr was largely silent until towards the end of the meeting after the floor had contributed a rather lengthy list of concerns about the standards.
She spoke about being positive about the Standards implementation and getting on with the job, suggested that John Hattie supports them (not in their current form he doesn’t),and that they are the solution to the long tail of under achievement – all standard and largely unsubstantiated fair – but then she was asked a question “What mandate has NZSTA got to support the standards?” She advised that they had surveyed schools and that it was clear that most schools were getting on with the implementation. Further questioning uncovered that a total of 22 surveys were returned – NATIONWIDE – 18 supporting the standards and 4 against.
This along with the fact that the surveys were sent in December (when according to the New Zealand Herald 66% of people they polled didn’t even understand the standards) makes the approach of NZSTA particularly suspect and in Lorraine Kerr’s case particularly self serving.
NZSTA has become a puppet of the government and cannot be trusted to support the Boards that they represent and Lorraine Kerr is a wolf in blue clothing.
There is a problem getting a voice for boards because so much of their funding comes from government contracts.
If not National Standards then what?? We need something in place to see what state the education levels of our children are! Quite frankly they are alarming and something needs to be done fast. I have a 5 and 8 year old with my 5 year old falling behind! I don’t take offence to the teacher telling me he’s this way, more what can i do as a parent to help him? the National standards are catching these children before they get too far down the track. I agree that a 5 year old shouldn’t be tested and yes some improvements need doing to the policy but I don’t see anyone else with any bright ideas on how to fix the problem. I am at university at present doing year two of my teacher training and believe that teachers also need to be accountable! Its our job! thats what we are getting paid for. Its the whole education system that needs to be looked at and I think with a little time the standards will show this and hopefully something will be done! Or is that what we are all afraid of???
@Mum & training teacher.
In your studies you must have come across AsTTle and other norm-referenced tests that most schools use for assessment. The school reports based on this data were informative. Now I get a level against the standard and will have to wait for several years to see if my child (working several years above his age) is actually making any individual progress or just cruising along -on track for NCEA level 2. This kid needs to be on track for PhD in accordance with his independantly assessed potential. Nat Std do not help him at all or his age-mates on the other end of the spectrum who will be below the age-standard always.
This is where the teachers need to step up and do their job to support these students. There is by no means a reason why you can’t meet with the teacher/principle to discuss this. Just saw on sky news today that 42% of students that go to College (University) are not graduating! That’s only 6 out 10 going through! they are in a state of crisis and really concerned. They went onto say its happening throughout the country and the only expections are the universities that agressivly monitor the students learning from the first week they arrive. So this is where the teachers take ownership of the learning.
The problem with the other forms of assessment is teachers and principles had been hiding results and doctoring reports
to parents, BOT’s and the MOE to make the teachers and schools look better. I have seen this happen and thats not right either. At least with the N.S’s they are soon going to see how many students are falling under the expected levels and this will be alarming to say the least. Even for children who excel, there are no systems in place to extend their learning, teachers only concentrate on the middle of the class and this was the way before this N.S’s came into effect as well. All I’m saying is we as a country should give them a chance, they need improvements as everything new does. It’s the teachers that are making the parents and students feel that they are failing instead of saying right these are the levels lets try and improve for next time, these are the steps we need to take. It’s not like the results are permently marked on your record! When was the last time you went for a job interview and showed a report from year 8 (form 2) and below??