Damn. Rick got in before me, with his really good story. My story’s a bit similar. I started my working life as a cleaner in Dunedin at Wakari Hospital’s Ward 10 (Psych ward). It was just before my 15th birthday (sshh). I desperately wanted a job.
I worked for Crothalls too after school, most notably cleaning the Medical School Museum, which was full of scary exhibits (body parts and dissected bodies). No-one else would do it. But I was fascinated.
I did lots of cleaning jobs that were really hard and dirty work, as Rick has described. The most important thing I noticed is that if you’re a cleaner, you’re generally invisible. It’s essential work, but you generally do it late at night, or early in the morning, when no-one’s around. For the majority of the population, they don’t notice. Though they would if the cleaning stopped.
I went outside to talk to the cleaners today on the Parliamentary forecourt. They are good, decent people who are trying to earn a living and pay their bills. They start work at midnight and work through the night. They have to drive to work because there’s no public transport.
I believe that all work is valuable. Cleaning is essential. Our cleaners deserve better pay and conditions.
Cleaner, PR guru, MP – logical career progression.
Cleaner, barmaid, student, journalist, PR practitioner, MP.
(volunteer, campaigner, mum)
Looks like Labour MPs are falling over each other to say they ‘once were cleaners’? I find it a bit insulting to cleaners, really, many of whom have little or no choice in the matter. Support their pay claim by all means, but without the personal empathy please, which in my view, degrades both.
Nice one! Didn’t you also have a brief stint at the Ministry for the Environment?
@jennifer – I did not see how it is insulting – its important for others to show empathy – its what makes the difference between understanding the picture for someone and thinking you understand. (often I might add the difference between left and right – and quite frankly the right could learn a bit more about what it is like to do some of these jobs and to have empathy for others – no empathy means the inability to care – not a good look and perhaps why this country is going down the cleaners loo)
jennifer – Why on earth would you feel so insulted on behalf of cleaners, unless you are one? Whats wrong with a bit of personal empathy? How is being empathetic degrading? Perhaps you have never been on a picket line or in a ‘taken for granted’ situation where it is actually comforting,even motivating, to know that others understand what your on about, and the fact they are MPs shouldnt really make a difference.
I say, where do you get one of these invisible workers from? I would much prefer to have one of them polishing my silver when I am entertaining guests.
“I went outside to talk to the cleaners today on the Parliamentary forecourt.”
Whilst you were talking to them, did you ask how they felt about their colleagues who have high absenteeism, don’t follow standard procedures, come to work late or leave early etc and yet get all get paid the same as someone who genuinely make an effort to do their job to the highest standard. I’m all for people getting paid higher, but if there are no gains made in productivity or performance I find it hard to justify it.
Perhaps you can ask this question: If your hourly rate went up to $18.00, but it meant that the size of your team needs to be reduced, would that be an acceptable solution?
@ steelykc and paul
Simply that MPs live an extraordinarily privileged life and I find it a little patronising when they feel the need to validate their left credentials that way. And no, I’m not a cleaner and have never been one. But to me it’s just the flip side of John Key using the little girl from McGehan Close to score a point.
Indiana
Or she could ask the cleaner’s employers; If you knew it would lift productivity would you be prepared to pay $18.00 per hour?
You seem to think that productivity and benefit to the employer will automatically be zero or less with a wage increase leading to job losses.
Workers must increase productivity to “prove” to the employer they are worthy of a sustainable wage? Who will determine sustainability (the employer) and what will they base it on? Increased margin of profit, base don what? 20% increase in their own take-home, 50%, more or less?
Jennifer I thought she was indicating why she might have an understanding of their conditions, you know cos she used to be one. Not lip service but experience.
Perhaps in a similar way that John Key doesn’t want to regulate financial sector, you know, because he used to be in it and knows how much easier it to succeed in it without pesky regulations.
Also @ $12.75 what other methods are being used, other than pay increases to increase productivity? How many employers genuinely investigate and implement methods to improve productivity that don’t involve pay rises?
“high wages discourage voluntary quits – which economises on
turnover costs and thereby raises productivity; high wages attract high quality recruits into the firm and high quality workers are the most productive…”
- Getting high quality job performance from your employees depends on giving employees opportunities for their personal growth, achievement, responsibility, recognition, and reward – …
Tracey, fair enough, but how many over the years since gaining that “experience” have actually used their subsequently attained more powerful and influential positions to actually pay their cleaners more? Get my drift? Empathy in these circumstances rings a bit hollow to me.
“You seem to think that productivity and benefit to the employer will automatically be zero or less with a wage increase leading to job losses.”
I would suspect that parliamentary services contract out cleaning. If the service provider’s profit margin reduces through a sudden jump in labour costs, 2 things will happen:
1. The supplier will drop the contract as it is no longer profitable and jobs will be lost or 2. the supplier will try pass the increased cost on to the customer. If the latter happens job are at risk as there could be a supplier out there with a lower cost model that will win the contract.
I’m just wondering just how much productivity can be lifted in cleaning parliament anyway. I mean surely there is only so much that can be physically done within a certain period of time.
Good post Clare. While some of the comments suggest that MPs talking about past working lives as cleaners is insulting, I think the real insults are those of the cleaning contractors as quoted in the Otago Daily Times today.
They say that they do not know what the ungrateful parliamentary cleaners are moaning about when they have been offered a wage increase that will put them above (by 5c/hour) the $12.75/hour statutory minimum wage.
They go on to say that increases higher than this are “not realistic in the current ecnomic environment.”
Why do I keep being reminded of the weekly invoice that Bill English sends to Parliamentary Services for the $20.00 an hour needed to clean his Wellington house?
I hope people saw this :
http://tinyurl.com/ybcx5og
PM John Key, when confronted with a question about whether he could survive on the minimum wage said (with a smile)
“Not easily. No. That’s the answer.”
John Ryall
Funny thing is, even in the best economic climate… they still chose to pay only the minimum wage.
Thanks for the support Clare. The really fundamental issue is should hard-working Kiwis, who carry out essential work, be paid poverty wages. I don’t think so, and I think the vast majority of the population agree. But this is not just an issue for the contractors (as the employers) to address. Clients(e.g.Parliamentary Services) must take responsibility to ensure the cleaning contract is adequately funded to allow for decent wages to be paid.
John Key’s attitude to cleaners was demonstrated in the last Parliamentary term, when he mocked Steve Maharey’s departure:
“… chancellor or whatever he is going to be at Massey University — chancellor or cleaner; one of the two.” (Hansard).
Ah, the famous John Key wit. Cleaner = insult.
People get low pay because they do a low skill job. Simple really.
Assuming that everybody works hard for their money – is there anyone that you believe should be on a minimum wage?
Its time the Boss’s put their money were their mouth is. To pay cleaners $12.55 per hour is just not fair. How can national party MP’s claim to pay $20.00 per hour to a cleaner in their “Big State House’s” then expect the cleaner who cleans their office to be happy to work for $12.55 per hour.
Its past the time that the cleaners should be given a pay jolt. In recent years their increases have been so small that they are now on little more than the minimum wage. The cleaning contractors are in a race to pay the lowest wages. Its time that rates were increased
One thing about the cynical Banksie-types is their supreme sense of self worth; something they seem to think other people who work with their hands for a living do not possess. Cleaners, kitchen staff, orderlies in hospitals and others in similar occupations are not mere human-machines. They are feeling, thinking human beings who, more often than not, take great pride in the work they do.
I am proud to be working to help organise these people into an effective social force that can confront and defeat the attitudes, control, and downright oppression of the born-to-rule elite of this world.
Cleaners deserve the respect any human being has the right to expect from their fellows in the human species. Those who seem to think they belong to a superior species can at least front up with, or support the payment of, adequate compensation for the work that cleaners perform: respect is something the cleaners may be able to teach them over time
@biker 10.07 The minimum wage should be $15/ hour and Trevor Mallard has a Private Member’s Bill to that effect.
@ Clare – why such a huge jump in wage to the minimum wage when National are in power and we are in such difficult financial times?
looking at youth unemployment figures since labour killed the youth rate – do you not believe that such a large rise would have a detrimental effect on employment rates for the low skilled / minimum wage workers?
Clare, all things going well and the minimum wage is set at $15.00, will Labour promise never to speak of poverty wages again because they achieved raising the minimum wage to this level? Is Labour now publically stating that $15.00 can be survived on, as in the question put to the PM? Will you also reduce benefits to no more than $31,200.00 gross per annum the survivable wage level?
How can national party MP’s claim to pay $20.00 per hour to a cleaner in their “Big State House’s” then expect the cleaner who cleans their office to be happy to work for $12.55 per hour.
If someone is going to be in my own home, I want to have confidence that they are, relatively speaking, the most trust-worthy individual I can possibly find. The higher wage is likely to give me a wider talent-pool from which to chose the individual that I’m most confident about.
That personal-trust issue is much less of a concern for workplaces.
Darien Fenton says:
PM John Key, when confronted with a question about whether he could survive on the minimum wage said (with a smile)
“Not easily. No. That’s the answer.”
Phil says (with a sneer) : After receiving the fat salary MP’s are paid, I’m certain you would find it difficult to live on the minimum wage (or $15.00/hr) too.
@ Phil – so the top secret documents in the PMs office and the budget drafts in the office of the MoF don’t require high levels of personal trust – yeah right.
@indiana $15 is not the end point – there will have to be both some sort of indexation and a better bargaining system which includes responsibility to bargain in good faith rather than just turn up. I’m don’t have expertise in benefit area.
@ Phil 1.01 What a ridiculous argument. If that were to hold, I’d pay a higher rate to a telephone or electrical technician to come to my home than to my workplace. Are you for real?
The bargaining system already exists, and perhaps it can be improved on…can you explain indexation further?
indiana
Surely you are being obtuse? The limit can never be $15. CPI moves at about 2% per year, it’s ok for producers to move prices with the times but not wages?
Tracey, interesting comparison. Are you suggesting that a competitive market pricing model is appropriate for setting wages? Producers may indeed move prices in response to CPI or any other input price changes, but they do so in a competitive environment. In these circumstances, to the producer, the price of cleaning is just one of these input prices. Or have I misunderstood your point?
Wow, that’s pretty condescending. They’re “good, decent people” huh? I’d be willing to bet that few, if any MPs in the House even know the cleaner’s names. Ever spoken to them before, other than to say hello? Or was it worth nothing to you politically up to this point?
Well, I wouldn’t agree that, for example, our major supermarkets raise prices in a competitive environment… yet another cartell to rival the petrol stations before Gull and Anderton stepped into the fray.
I’m not suggesting a competitive market pricing model for wages, I was really responding directly to indiana’s apparent suggestion that wages come last in any pricing model. I make the observation, amongst others that when people claim if wages go up people lose jobs, supply demand, state of the economy, I ask myself, why, even in the good times did National vote against raising the minimum wage time and time again? because ultimately national does not see any inherent value in a worker, and a worker should be grateful for even having a job, rather than expect respect, liveable wages, training, possible promotion/advancement.
I can recall a situation where a security service provider raised their rates as they recently renegotiated their employment contract and were passing the increase in wages onto their customers, as labour cost was their highest operating cost. Many customers re-tendered their security services and opted to go with a supplier that provided the same service levels but had a lower cost model. I would imagine that cleaning contractors play in the same conditions. By the way, the security company that tried to pass on its cost went out of business resulting in loss of jobs, a sad reality of competitive forces. Perhaps Trevor will explain if the indexation will be based on cost of living or value of time traded for wages…I think it is too hard for employers to set wages on the cost of living as they cannot control how the employees spend their money.
indiana can you explain why the practice appears to be, among unskilled industries to pay minimum wage in hard times and in times of good profit? It’s all very well claiming market forces this and market forces that, when sometimes the explanation is greed and lack of belief that a liveable wage is even deserved. I qualify that, I wonder at times , in very large businesses, if those making/setting wages really understand how hard it is to raise a 2 child family on minimum wage, and not become a criminal, not become a drug user, not over indulge in alcohol, not become sick and in need of public services
I certainly agree with some of what you say but there is room for compassion in setting wages.
Tracey, thanks for the clarification. It is certainly true that National “does not see any inherent value in a worker”. That was the ethos given life to by Employment Contracts Act, an ethos they still hold dear. They are just a little more cunning these days in enacting it.
“I think it is too hard for employers to set wages on the cost of living as they cannot control how the employees spend their money.” indiana
They may not be able to “control” it but for unskilled labour it is simple to know exactly where it goes…
tax
rent
utilities
food
water
possibly kiwisaver (another blow to workers by Nats by reducing employer contributions) reduction hasnt translated into a wage increase instead…
I do WISH the unskilled workforce would spend their income more discernedly (mad eup word?)
” if those making/setting wages really understand how hard it is to raise a 2 child family on minimum wage”
Whilst I share your sentiments, I doubt any employee can go to their employer and say, we’re having another child, can you raise my income by 20%? I just don’t believe that New Zealanders should be talking about about a set minimum wage. I’d accept it more if it were promoted more as a starting wage for an agreed level of low skill/experience/performance and time traded. What we are saying here is that low skill, entry level roles, perhaps eg cleaners, the starting wage should be $x. But we shouldn’t promote the $x as an acceptable base income to survive from.
Tracey”can you explain why the practice appears to be, among unskilled industries to pay minimum wage in hard times and in times of good profit?”
The key word here is “unskilled” and because there is a over supply of unskilled workers in the market place they can be employed cheaply ie the minimum wage.
Ian Hodgets:I doubt that the cleaners in parliment clean only the offices of national party members.
that a cleaner is being paid any amount of money to clean an mps house in Wellington is just plain wrong, and again I suspect that Labour mps are having their Wellington acommadations cleaned at the taxpayers expense.
Bosses put their money where their mouth is every week.
People who earn a minimum wage need to understand how difficult it will be to raise two children,Id have thought that welfare for families, community services cards, cheap doctors etc would have gone a way to helping out.
@Trevor
so the top secret documents in the PMs office and the budget drafts in the office of the MoF don’t require high levels of personal trust – yeah right.
Trevor. Of course they do. However, most workplaces have strict policies and infrastructure in place for data/inforamtion security which simply cannot be emulated in a home environment.
@Clare
What a ridiculous argument. Are you for real?
Have you ever seen an episode of Target?
I make the time to stick around when Telco’s or Sparkies are in my home, at least for the first little while that they arrive. As do a great many people. There’s an opportunity cost, so I am paying more for their services in that respect.