Minister of Labour Kate Wilkinson appears to be open to bringing back lower rates for young workers on the minimum wage.
Answering a supplementary question from Roger Douglas yesterday on the minimum wage, she said :
“The member may be aware that when Labour wanted to abolish the youth rate we did in fact vote against that legislation, for that very reason. We were concerned that it would price young people off the job market, and that it might also be a perverse incentive for them to leave education. I say to the member who asked the question that we are always willing to listen to good ideas.”
John Key said in his speech to parliament on Tuesday that “ the government will continue to look at whether labour laws are imposing excessive costs on the country and holding back opportunities to create jobs .”
Kate’s answer would indicate that youth minimum wages may well fit into the PM’s criteria for imposing excessive costs and holding back job creation.
There’s a number of National MP offices being picketed this Saturday by the Living Wage campaign for a $15 minimum wage. I hope they ask National MPs this question, because there’s thousands of young workers who want to know whether they are facing pay cuts as well as hikes in GST.
Update : Roger Douglas has just announced he will be introducing a members’ bill to bring back youth rates in the minimum wage.
Well spotted. Like Tolley and Paula (I model myself on Jenny Shipley) Bennett, Wilkinson’s a Key/English puppet. Key’s remarks along the lines of “2010’s going to be a big year for national” signals an ideological onslaught in every area imaginable. Sad thing is they’ve got the disappointingly (and increasingly) naive Maori Party to support them on the very issues that obviously hurt everyone but Maori in particular.
1850’s here we come people, complete with sweatshops.
17-18 year olds face the same living costs as 27-28 year old, I fail to see why we should be giving them a massive pay cut.
You cannot be over vigilant with this lot. In times of high unemployment too many employers already regard the minimum wage in fact as a maximum. There should be wide support to retain the status quo Darien if the Nats do try to return to youth rates.
It makes me laugh with labour banging on about the $15 min wage when they know there was no way possible that they could deliver it this year – they are simply pandering to the min wage crowd.
We have seen the evidence of your removal of youth rates with many more youth unemployed having been priced out of the market.
Not something I would be proud to part of if I was you guys.
Really Millsy? Same living costs? Evidence for that have you?
Is simple supply and demand. Why, when so many 27-28 years are out of work, would I want to employ an 17-18 year old. The 27-28 year old is a much better prospect for employment over their teen brother.
Face it, the market has spoken and 17-18 year olds are too expensive.
Moderation check?
bikerkiwi,
Please explain the most vulnerable people in this country could get a pay cut? Are you comfortable with the fact that workers are treated like crap in this country, and their bosses dont see them as people?
What about workers who go to work hungry?
Do you want a low wage economy?
Why dont you go and clean your own godamn office?
Do you find homelessess acceptable?
You know, people like bikerkiwi and sweetd were probably saying the same thing about the idea that women should be paid the same as men. Equal work equal pay.
The impression I get is that employers will pay their workers as little as possible, regardless of living costs. Its OK for power companies to increase their prices, landlords to increase rents, farmers to increase their prices, but if the greedy workers want a little bit more so they can keep their heads above water there all this hell to pay. No wonder people are so miserable in this country, they slog their guts out day in and day out, and the bikerkiwis and sweetds of this world tell them they should get less and less.
THIS IS OUTRAGE. Aboloshing Youth Wage, in my opinion, was one of the better things that the government has done this term. I cannot get my head around the implications of these comments from the Government Ministers.
Anyway, when an under 18 year old starts a job, youth rates apply for the first 200 hours, after which, the adult minimum wage is paid. I felt that is a suitable comprimise that would appease the Dickensian elemant in this country, of which Bikierkiwi is a part of.
James, youth rates were abolished under the last Labour government, with the help of Sue Bradford and the Greens. The point of this discussion is the question of whether Wilkinson’s comments signal this national government bringing them back.
The only reason we need a minimum wage is because the value of some people on the open labour market is so low that ‘the going rate’ wouldn’t be enough to allow breadwinners to feed, house and clothe their families. However it’s dressed up it’s an artificially high rate, and because in the end everyone has to pay for this subsidy it is, in effect, another form of welfare.
For adults striving to maintain a home and provide for a family I have no issue with this. I’d much rather subsidise people who are working than those who are not.
But there is no reason, in my mind, why this market distortion should exist for youngsters who don’t have such responsibilities. If the market rate (which balances supply and demand in a better way than any other we’ve been able to dream up) for schoolkids stuffing bags in a supermarket is $5 an hour then that’s what they should be paid. If no one would do it for that amount the rate would go up. Kids shouldn’t be able to coattail on the back of benign legislation aimed at helping those who really need it.
Despite what Millsey claims I wonder how many 16 or 17 year olds have the responsibilities and hence the same living costs of adults? Almost none, I’d wager.
It’s interesting that the abolition of the youth minimum wage came about as a private member’s bill introduced by the “Greens”. I wonder how much of the extra pay that has gone into the pockets of these youngsters has been spent on unnecessary junk like the latest cellphone to replace the “out-of-date” year-old one, or to buy petrol to do burn outs at 3 in the morning, or RTDs to get blitzed at the weekend?
Douglas is wrong. The youth minimum wage shouldn’t be recreated. Under 18s should be taken outside of the provisions altogether.
“The youth minimum wage shouldn’t be recreated. Under 18s should be taken outside of the provisions altogether”
And bring back child slavery?
Tell me, is a wage of zero acceptable to you?
Deleted offensive Trevor
Please George, if you have a big problem with workers getting paid a decent wage, move to China.
“I wonder how much of the extra pay that has gone into the pockets of these youngsters has been spent on unnecessary junk like the latest cellphone to replace the “out-of-date” year-old one, or to buy petrol to do burn outs at 3 in the morning, or RTDs to get blitzed at the weekend?”
Language deleted Trevor
Surely young people deserve to have luxuries? Or should they have nothing and just wear sack cloths? God forbid they should have a life of some sort. Your self righteousness disgusts me. Do you begrudge EVERYTHING that low paid workers get?
You know what? I am a better person than you ever will be.
You know why? Because I think that EVERYONE deserves a decent standard of living. Thats right EVERYONE.
It is because of people like you the reason why we have so much misery in this world.
Are you a god botherer?
Mind you George, you did deny that there was widespread abuse on the happy clapper orphanages.
But according to you, they were the children of dirty little slappers…
Having a youth wage gives the young ones an inside leg to getting their first jobs and their first chances. I hope they bring it back. I wouldn’t like to see a minimum wage removed altogether though – kids have no bargaining power and I feel it will result in exploitation.
millsy Why dont you go and clean your own godamn office?
Cleaners are not all paid rotten wages, millsy. I know three who do nicely and set their rates far above minimum wage – the thing that all three have in common is they’ve developed their reputations and found a specialty (say cleaning the quarters of yachts or cleaning high-end houses). Basically they have business nous.
Cleaning is like any other job. Some are better at it than others. The ones who are better have bargaining power.
So Bea,
You think wages should be cut for young people too?
I ask the same of you: Do you think that zero is an acceptable wage?
Warning abuse. And getting boring. Holiday pending Trevor
Abolishing youth rates has caused a doubling in youth unemployment.
Restoring youth rates could therefore half youth unemployment.
Yet again a {deleted, please don’t use that kind of language} wants to cut wages for our most vulnerable.
You disgust me.
There you go Trevor – Can I have my holiday now??? {not yet, but more language of that nature and you will, Grant}
Labour’s solution to get youth back into employment seems to be to push for National to increase funding to the Youth Guarantee Scheme.
But what does that scheme do?? It taxes New Zealanders, in order to give employers money to hire young people. It effectively subsidises their wages so that employers can afford to hire them.
What does that tell you?? That the abolition of the youth minimum wage has priced young people out of the market as employers will only hire them when they can get a subsidy from the Government to bring the wage costs down.
If employers have to choose whether to hire a 16-18 year old at $12.75 or an older worker, they are most likely going to choose the older person. Why? In most cases it is because that person will have more experience.
It seems Labour wants us all to pay higher taxes so that we can subsidise 16-18 year olds to go to work and get experience.
@Fisiani – Where do you get your facts from? There is no research showing any link between the two. Youth unemployment is measured as those 15 – 19 years old – 15 year olds don’t get any minimum wage and 19 year olds were already entitled to the adult minimum wage. The abolishing of the youth minimum wage didn’t come into first until 1 April 2008. and every new 16 and 17 year old worker has to work 200 hours on 80% of the full rate before they qualify for the adult minimum wage. There is still a training wage of 80% for 16 – 18 year olds.
@George – I’m surprised you think the minimum wage is enough for anyone to “feed, clothe and house their families.” When Labour came into government the youth minimum wage was $4.20 for those 20 and under – is that what you think it should be now?
Surely workers should have a fair days work for a fair days pay.
The mininum wage is a disgrace in a wealthy country like Aotearoa. The idea of a youth rate is even more disgusting. I look around my town of Cambridge and in certain areas there is so much wealth its becoming obsene. How the hell do they get this money . Huge houses , 3or4 cars and all the trimmings .They certainly do not work any harder than any other worker. In fact most do not work so hard . It’s time there was a limit to how high wages can be ,after all if there is a mininum wage why not a limit at the top.
The cause of poverty in Aoteroa is the wage gap not the difference between Australia and NZ .
A limit at the top would certainly improve Australia’s pool of potential employees. And suitcase retailers would run a brisk trade.
Being a sensible moderate
1. I will have to propose a compromise – how about an increase in the adult minimum wage to $15 an hour from 1 April hour and allowing youth to have the current $12.50 an hour?
(a) However it is only fair to note very few 16 and 17 year olds work full-time, nearly all who work do so part-time. It’s a non issue at that age group.
(b) As for those 18 and 19, they have the choice of ending their edcuation and working full-time (if they can find work). The higher the minimum wage, the more tempted they will be not to further their study.
So a lower minimum wage for those 16 to 19?
(c). At the same wage employers may choose older workers, forcing some of the younger workers to choose between further education and the dole.
(d) With a lower minimum wage for youth, more expensive to support older workers remain unemployed.
(e). The government budget is stronger with a higher one rate minimum wage. There is more tax returned to government and less cost supporting the cheaper to support younger workers unemployed.
(f). Younger people are better placed to gain further education (it’s hard for older people to afford this as easily as those living with their parents) and can receive help to train/gain work experience – part-time in return for the dole or voluntarily full-time in return for on the job training – this with the available money/(e).
2. I simply state this fact, the market does not set minimum wage rates – humanity does. Given it is official policy to use RB policy settings to prevent full employment – there is no fair market for unskilled workers.
3 Conclusion.
The best option is a $15 minimum wage this year for all workers.
The next best is a $15 an hour minimum wage for adult workers and one with a youth rate for those 16-19 at $12.50.
The worst option is a minimum wage at $12.75 for adults and a lower rate for youth.
Pinkopostman your 502 pm post typifies what is wrong with this country and why it is in the dire position it currently finds its self in.
“3and4 cars and all the trimmings” chances are they did work hard, more than likely took the risks and lay awake at night and worried weather the bank was going to end up with the house,If they didnt work harder then they worked smarter.
The left would be better served by working out how they can get them selves in the same position rather than working out how to deprive those that have worked for it and give it to those that wont.