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	<title>Comments on: Govt call-in of factory farming consents</title>
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	<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/</link>
	<description>A blog written by Labour MPs</description>
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		<title>By: Jum</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-26854</link>
		<dc:creator>Jum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-26854</guid>
		<description>Yes Dobbie, excellent comment.  

To those who denigrate the submitters who have a less than expert view; they have brothers and sisters all over the world who enjoy visiting NZ.  Their perception of these cow cubicles on iconic land will result in some unwelcome results for tourism.  Strange that Key doesn&#039;t get that?

Also, yet another example of a damaging practice closing down in one country and (probably the same investors) opening it up in dear old NZ.  Other - eg. private prisons, e.g. national standards, e.g. voting in a moneyman for pm, e.g. trying to downgrade rail transport and increase road use when overseas the opposite is happening.  

It&#039;s almost like the pervs&#039; bad practises after being found out in their own countries are now setting up here to continue their nasty work.

Who are the investors in the three applications?
Do they live in New Zealand?
Are they New Zealanders?
If they are so proud of their planned caging of cows why aren&#039;t they telling us in person?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Dobbie, excellent comment.  </p>
<p>To those who denigrate the submitters who have a less than expert view; they have brothers and sisters all over the world who enjoy visiting NZ.  Their perception of these cow cubicles on iconic land will result in some unwelcome results for tourism.  Strange that Key doesn&#8217;t get that?</p>
<p>Also, yet another example of a damaging practice closing down in one country and (probably the same investors) opening it up in dear old NZ.  Other &#8211; eg. private prisons, e.g. national standards, e.g. voting in a moneyman for pm, e.g. trying to downgrade rail transport and increase road use when overseas the opposite is happening.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s almost like the pervs&#8217; bad practises after being found out in their own countries are now setting up here to continue their nasty work.</p>
<p>Who are the investors in the three applications?<br />
Do they live in New Zealand?<br />
Are they New Zealanders?<br />
If they are so proud of their planned caging of cows why aren&#8217;t they telling us in person?</p>
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		<title>By: Spud</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25472</link>
		<dc:creator>Spud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25472</guid>
		<description>@Dobbie - excellent comment! :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dobbie &#8211; excellent comment! <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Dobbie</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25464</link>
		<dc:creator>Dobbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25464</guid>
		<description>Anybody who wants a balanced view might want to get a copy of last week&#039;s Listener. Excellent article.

PS Brendon, I&#039;m not a Labour supporter but I admire the work you&#039;ve done here. As far as I can tell the local MP, Jacqui Dean, has done bugger all on one of the most significant issues her electorate is likely to face on her watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody who wants a balanced view might want to get a copy of last week&#8217;s Listener. Excellent article.</p>
<p>PS Brendon, I&#8217;m not a Labour supporter but I admire the work you&#8217;ve done here. As far as I can tell the local MP, Jacqui Dean, has done bugger all on one of the most significant issues her electorate is likely to face on her watch.</p>
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		<title>By: Brendon Burns</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25440</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendon Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25440</guid>
		<description>Interesting thought Trevor but wasn&#039;t just Key who waded into the issue; David Carter also commented negatively in House about the mega housed dairy farms and called for an urgent report. Suspect Fonterra made its views known to Govt before it went public with its comments about possible impact on NZ&#039;s pastoral farming base. Smith now looking at putting an EPA official into ECAN to assist but surely the welter of issues - potential economic damage/animal welfare/environmental harm - will see Cabinet look at wider intervention at its first meeting on Tuesday week.

Kaine, this is way bigger than the Southland farm where cows are housed in winter - and in a much more fragile environment. Even the local Fed Farmers president in Mackenzie Basin is publicly opposed! 

And &#039;factory farming&quot; is the phrase used by Ecan in its letter to Nick Smith, DavidW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thought Trevor but wasn&#8217;t just Key who waded into the issue; David Carter also commented negatively in House about the mega housed dairy farms and called for an urgent report. Suspect Fonterra made its views known to Govt before it went public with its comments about possible impact on NZ&#8217;s pastoral farming base. Smith now looking at putting an EPA official into ECAN to assist but surely the welter of issues &#8211; potential economic damage/animal welfare/environmental harm &#8211; will see Cabinet look at wider intervention at its first meeting on Tuesday week.</p>
<p>Kaine, this is way bigger than the Southland farm where cows are housed in winter &#8211; and in a much more fragile environment. Even the local Fed Farmers president in Mackenzie Basin is publicly opposed! </p>
<p>And &#8216;factory farming&#8221; is the phrase used by Ecan in its letter to Nick Smith, DavidW.</p>
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		<title>By: Dobbie</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25423</link>
		<dc:creator>Dobbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 05:37:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25423</guid>
		<description>Not everyone who objects to these  application are uninformed, urban-liberal, liberals. Some of us are National supporters, farmers, and very much informed. So in response to to Richard Peacocke&#039;s condescending spin......

In other applications Mr Peacocke describes the companies he represents as &quot;investment vehicles for New Zealanders living in Australia&quot;. That&#039;s the first truth here - this is about making money for people who do not choose to live in the country of their birth.

Secondly, he talks about &#039;stables&#039;. These are not &#039;stables&#039;. These are not herd-homes or animal shelters where the cows get to wander in and out at will. These are about keeping the cows inside 24/7 for 8 months of the year, and 12 hours a day for the remaining four months. So this is not &#039;happy cows&#039; this is about using these animals  to maximise profits.

Thirdly, he mentions the environmental benefits versus pastoral farming in the rest of the country. His applications are about producing milk on country where you would not otherwise be able to do so. So pushing land to do what it is not supposed to be doing. The result will be environmental degradation in one of our iconic landscapes. Again, making money for a few to the detriment of others.

Fourthly, he talks about Fonterra in China. Two wrongs don&#039;t make a right! He conveniently neglects to point out that Fonterra&#039;s main objection is economic. Pastoral farming remains economically more attractive in most of New Zealand. Fonterra are concerned about these factory farms going ahead because they will be detrimental to their shareholders who have invested in grass. 

By the way, in the US feedlots are closing down and farmers are moving back to grass. Why? Because it is more profitable! Why follow a failed model! Again. Mr Peacocke proposes damaging the many for the benefit of the few.

Fifth, he talks with confidence about the projections for effluent discharge and water quality. One of the major objectors to these proposals has cast major doubts on the quality of Mr Peacocke&#039;s &#039;experts&#039; projections.

Where he is right is in pointing out how intensive farming practices are degrading our land, water and air nationally. This is not a justification for approving his applications. This is justification for turning them down and then taking action to clean up the country! 

Where he is right is that animal shelters can go a long way towards improving profitability, animal welfare and environmental outcomes on dairy farms. That does not provide an solid argument for allowing factory farming in marginal landscapes. Nor does it apply to his applications - he is  proposing cubicle or factory farming NOT animal shelters.

Oh, and Mr Peacocke, call a spade a spade.  You are trying to do it by pushing an unsuitable form of farming onto an iconic landscape to make money for yourself and your business partners who mostly live in Australia. You are money grubbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not everyone who objects to these  application are uninformed, urban-liberal, liberals. Some of us are National supporters, farmers, and very much informed. So in response to to Richard Peacocke&#8217;s condescending spin&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>In other applications Mr Peacocke describes the companies he represents as &#8220;investment vehicles for New Zealanders living in Australia&#8221;. That&#8217;s the first truth here &#8211; this is about making money for people who do not choose to live in the country of their birth.</p>
<p>Secondly, he talks about &#8217;stables&#8217;. These are not &#8217;stables&#8217;. These are not herd-homes or animal shelters where the cows get to wander in and out at will. These are about keeping the cows inside 24/7 for 8 months of the year, and 12 hours a day for the remaining four months. So this is not &#8216;happy cows&#8217; this is about using these animals  to maximise profits.</p>
<p>Thirdly, he mentions the environmental benefits versus pastoral farming in the rest of the country. His applications are about producing milk on country where you would not otherwise be able to do so. So pushing land to do what it is not supposed to be doing. The result will be environmental degradation in one of our iconic landscapes. Again, making money for a few to the detriment of others.</p>
<p>Fourthly, he talks about Fonterra in China. Two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right! He conveniently neglects to point out that Fonterra&#8217;s main objection is economic. Pastoral farming remains economically more attractive in most of New Zealand. Fonterra are concerned about these factory farms going ahead because they will be detrimental to their shareholders who have invested in grass. </p>
<p>By the way, in the US feedlots are closing down and farmers are moving back to grass. Why? Because it is more profitable! Why follow a failed model! Again. Mr Peacocke proposes damaging the many for the benefit of the few.</p>
<p>Fifth, he talks with confidence about the projections for effluent discharge and water quality. One of the major objectors to these proposals has cast major doubts on the quality of Mr Peacocke&#8217;s &#8216;experts&#8217; projections.</p>
<p>Where he is right is in pointing out how intensive farming practices are degrading our land, water and air nationally. This is not a justification for approving his applications. This is justification for turning them down and then taking action to clean up the country! </p>
<p>Where he is right is that animal shelters can go a long way towards improving profitability, animal welfare and environmental outcomes on dairy farms. That does not provide an solid argument for allowing factory farming in marginal landscapes. Nor does it apply to his applications &#8211; he is  proposing cubicle or factory farming NOT animal shelters.</p>
<p>Oh, and Mr Peacocke, call a spade a spade.  You are trying to do it by pushing an unsuitable form of farming onto an iconic landscape to make money for yourself and your business partners who mostly live in Australia. You are money grubbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Mallard</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25406</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Mallard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 02:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25406</guid>
		<description>Brendon I wonder if the reason Smith has acted in such a pathetic manner is that he received advice that indicated that Key&#039;s pre Christmas comments prejudged the issue and therefore made it hard for the Government to to call in the applications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brendon I wonder if the reason Smith has acted in such a pathetic manner is that he received advice that indicated that Key&#8217;s pre Christmas comments prejudged the issue and therefore made it hard for the Government to to call in the applications.</p>
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		<title>By: Spud</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25350</link>
		<dc:creator>Spud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:23:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25350</guid>
		<description>There won&#039;t be an abundance of water if they get their way with factory farming in the dry parts of the country. :evil:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There won&#8217;t be an abundance of water if they get their way with factory farming in the dry parts of the country. <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif' alt=':evil:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kelvin Davis</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25342</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelvin Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25342</guid>
		<description>In 2005 I visited a Cow Concentration Camp in Arizona. something like 60,000 cattle on a couple of hundred acres. A 24/7 milking operation with cows milked 3 times a day. They only lasted about 3 years before being sent off to become Happy Meals, compared to about 9 years here in NZ. They were fed alfalfa and potatoes and had big fans blowing water spray across them to keep them cool in the Arizona heat. The place stunk. Didn&#039;t think we needed them here because of the abundance of grass and water etc, but I guess it&#039;s all about making money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2005 I visited a Cow Concentration Camp in Arizona. something like 60,000 cattle on a couple of hundred acres. A 24/7 milking operation with cows milked 3 times a day. They only lasted about 3 years before being sent off to become Happy Meals, compared to about 9 years here in NZ. They were fed alfalfa and potatoes and had big fans blowing water spray across them to keep them cool in the Arizona heat. The place stunk. Didn&#8217;t think we needed them here because of the abundance of grass and water etc, but I guess it&#8217;s all about making money.</p>
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		<title>By: Spud</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25307</link>
		<dc:creator>Spud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 06:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25307</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see the farm but I&#039;ll take your word for it. It&#039;s nice to see the cows sitting in their paddocks mooing and chewing and coming over to the fence to see you. :-D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see the farm but I&#8217;ll take your word for it. It&#8217;s nice to see the cows sitting in their paddocks mooing and chewing and coming over to the fence to see you. <img src='http://blog.labour.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: kaine T</title>
		<link>http://blog.labour.org.nz/2010/01/07/govt-call-in-of-factory-farming-consents/comment-page-1/#comment-25305</link>
		<dc:creator>kaine T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 06:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.labour.org.nz/?p=9453#comment-25305</guid>
		<description>@Brendon - paragraph one - THAT&#039;S the farm I was talking about in my inartiulate comments above. Yes... so this application is nothing like that farm? 

Even Spud would like that farm... 

I think Richard&#039;s right though... for the strength of opposition (on this issue), you&#039;d expect that opposition to be better informed and better at informing. I&#039;ve only seen what I&#039;ve seen on the news and to be honest, I think the opposition looks typically Snail Protection League crazy styles and wrong. So, what is it we need to know here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brendon &#8211; paragraph one &#8211; THAT&#8217;S the farm I was talking about in my inartiulate comments above. Yes&#8230; so this application is nothing like that farm? </p>
<p>Even Spud would like that farm&#8230; </p>
<p>I think Richard&#8217;s right though&#8230; for the strength of opposition (on this issue), you&#8217;d expect that opposition to be better informed and better at informing. I&#8217;ve only seen what I&#8217;ve seen on the news and to be honest, I think the opposition looks typically Snail Protection League crazy styles and wrong. So, what is it we need to know here?</p>
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