Finally, confirmation of what was inevitable. Of course it is good that the PM will be there, but that he has been dragged there is an indictment of his and National’s real views on climate change and a terrible look for a country that prides itself on its green credentials. Not to mention going there with a deeply flawed ETS and an emissions reduction target that makes the phrase “ambitious for New Zealand” a sick joke.
about time.
Can he be that shallow ? Its more like Britney every day. The PMs schedule resembles that of a pop princess
I hate this government’s environmental plans, such as carving up out national parks!
But climate gate has made me doubt the co2 thing so I no longer care what happens in copenhagen.
Grant: I hope you made a tidy profit on your wager! (see previous post, linked “inevitable”).
It is quite extraordinary that John Key’s statements are still dutifully reported by the media as if they were meaningful and durable, as if they were to be taken seriously. They last about as long as it takes the words to disappear into thin air.
Presumably there is only a “5%” chance that he will break election promises. Oh wait, he already has.
Spud watch this very balanced and easy to fathom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52KLGqDSAjo&feature=channel
Thanks
I’m still confused, but it was interesting. 
If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your
science is not valid.
“Professor Pilmer”
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/143573/Climate-change-fraud-
Doug, do you support the Prime Minister’s decision to go to Copenhagen?
Decided he needs the photo-op after all, then?
thank goodness we have a PM willing to change his mind on such important matters.
The ETS subject is a nightmare .. look across the Tasman as an example and check out the lame US target.
Many world leaders have changed their mind about attending this meeting .. Obama being one.
You guys can hate the Govts ETS scheme as much as you like, but the fact is NOBODY has the faintest idea on how to go about this climate change issue .. maybe clarity may come from this latest meeting .. I doubt it.
If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your
science is not valid.
“Professor Pilmer”
Ah Yes Mr Plimmer
http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/crude-hack-and-the-bleat-goes-on/#more-7405
When these politicians stop their use of air travel perhaps I might begin to take AGW seriously. Until then I just see it as proof that they don’t believe in it themselves and are creating a massive big trough to get their snouts into, courtesy of taxpayers.
I’ve just googled “Copenhagen What’s on”. Key’s trip is actually a blind.
Key is really going to see the First Bike City of the World and Copenhagen by Bicycle, an imaginative, freewheeling exhibition on the bicycle culture of Copenhagen.
What’s the bet he does a Hone and nips off to take a look?
Or he’s going to see the Nutcracker Suite to get a few tips on how to handle Rodney, Bill at al.
Or take in a Munch Exhibition, to learn how to scream silently.
Couldn’t miss it.
@thomasf. Looks like a very good video, will watch later.
@Doug. A very interesting article, and apon reading it, it lead meto do a bit more research, and I can’t help somewhat believing it, based on other sources. I would be interested to know what Labour MP’s have to say on the matter.
I would be very interested to see a copy of John Keys agenda for his trip to Copenhagen. Has anyone seen one? Has it been released?
Key “By my absence I wouldn’t want to give the impression that New Zealand isn’t committed to playing its part in the fight against climate change.”
Actually Mr Key, the ETS already gives everyone that impression…
@Tigger. Well put.
“Ambitious for temperature record”..?
Im confused Jeremy, what are you referring to?
“an emissions reduction target that makes the phrase “ambitious for New Zealand” a sick joke”
I wonder if it would not be better for Labour to stop banging the greenie drum here and leave it for the Greens. When Nick Smith was being questioned by Russell Norman in Question Time the other day, and Russell Norman was trying to get him to admit that emissions might be higher at some vague point in the future (as calculated by some airy-fairy calculation) than they would be under Labour’s ETS, Nick Smith won on points as far as I’m concerned by pointing out that there’s not a whole lot of point in reducing NZs emissions by sending industries overseas so they can make more emissions in some other country.
Labour is traditionally supposed to champion workers. It should be taking the moderate road. Arguing for insanely big feel-good emissions targets using dodgy formulas without taking into account the real-life opportunity cost is best left for the Greens.
@Bea. Agreed. I have been saying for a while: Get the Greens to write it, and everyone else to give input, and find an arrangement that best suits all.
I’m not sure I’d want the greens writing the ets, it might end up being too extreme.
True. I think that they should have a bit of say in it though. They are certainly more qualified in the portfolio than the Maori party!
I see India have agreed to something similar to the US .. somewhere arond a 20% reduction on 2005 levels. I suggest “our” proposel is touger than theirs especially considering how small our emmissions are.
I sort of agree with those above and yes Spud, the Greens would have us back to the horse and cart days and no industy.
I really worry about we are doing to ourselves re increased costs, taxs and levis etc to pay for what?? where is the money going to go?? If it goes into the Govt coffers to a dedicated fund aimed at improved systems (and R&D) then ok.
I keep hearing Mr Goff saying that the heavy polluters are getting off lightly. I would suggest hitting them hard will take them offshore (industry) and reduce export earnings (dairy).
There are experts everywhere and they seem to be split with each half slagging off the other .. sigh.
@James and j,abba (seriously take him off m, oderation as a Christmas present?) LOL
I agree.
Except I sort of agree with Goff that the polluters should pay and not the punters because they’re the ones making the mess, but I take your point that they could flee. It would be nice to see industry cleaning up as much as possible.
Spud .. my change to j (space)abba has taken me off the moderation thing so ta (hehe).
Do you remember a year or so ago when milk, butter and cheese went through the roof price wise due to the price the farmers were getting for their product offshore? NZ went into attack mode due to the costs on families .. it was a shocker. I would suggest 2 things would happen if farmers had to pay their real share:
1/ they will go broke or downsize
2/ you me a dupree will get hit in the supermarket even worse than before. Add that cost to petrol, ACC, rates, rent blah blah blah and oh my god.
Let’s hope something solid comes from this latest talkathon that all countries can agree on .. I must say, I’m not holding my breath.
I still favour a Labour/Nat peace accord and present a united front unlike our Oz cussies.
LOL
The dairy prices were and are pretty grim.
I agree with your comment above Spud but also the agricultural and dairy industries put alot of goodness into our economy so a potential Emmissions Trading Scheme that punishes them could lead to them closing down and damage our exmport market, and by extention our economy.