Comments on: National, Maori Party* and Peter Dunne pass their ETS

By: Rob

Rob — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 07:25:14 +0000

1 word-CLIMATEGATE!!.

By: Rushed Law is Bad Law « Red Alert

Rushed Law is Bad Law « Red Alert — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:01:27 +0000

[...] a rushed law making process- the Emissions Trading Scheme and National Standards. The ETS has been discussed at length this week, but the concerns raised by our leading, and indeed world leading, educational [...]

By: Jeremy Harris

Jeremy Harris — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:54:20 +0000

Thank you for the response Charles…

By: Charles Chauvel

Charles Chauvel — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:21:35 +0000

Jeremy, thanks. The rules around mining and extraction are that it is the country of destination that bears the liability, not the country of origin Problem for the planet is that we export most of our coal to the developing world, which has no Kyoto liability. But not an issue for Solid Energy under the current rules.

As to Rio, NZ Steel, Methanex, Holcim and the small number of other on-shore big industrial processors – sure, some of them have said that they might not expand activity here under an ETS, if other countries where they operate don’t put one in place. My point is that these claims are untested – and there’s certainly no credible evidence that they’ll shut down and leave NZ.

By: Jeremy Harris

Jeremy Harris — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:52:04 +0000

@Charles, I’m generally more supportive of Labour’s ETS than National’s (I support a carbon tax) so playing devil’s advocate a bit…

But Labour’s ETS would definitely have put pressure on Rio Tinto, that’s 1,000 jobs in Invercargill and $2 billion to our economy, ditto NZ Steel, not sure about Solid Energy is it okay under an ETS to dig up coal and send it overseas..?

Obviously things like agriculture and power generation can’t go overseas…

By: Falafulu Fisi

Falafulu Fisi — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:04:05 +0000

Some who moans about ETS today are National supporters. I hope that come the next election, they will abandon National and vote for ACT. If they keep voting for National, then they must be a bunch of useful idiots.

By: Charles Chauvel

Charles Chauvel — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:44:42 +0000

Except, Jeremy, the expert independent advisor to the select committee, and the Treasury, and the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, and the Sustainability Council all say that there is no evidence that we are targeting subisidies at the industries actually at risk of relocating off-shore. Unless that evidence is in one of the many papers with-held by Nick Smith, it probably doesn’t exist.

By: Jeremy Harris

Jeremy Harris — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:40:22 +0000

I guess the argument for number 2 is a much worse Health and Education system…

They are paid for by taxes and if a really high carbon cost was placed on business that wasn’t overseas, those businesses would relocate overseas taking business tax revenue, jobs (and by extension PAYE tax) with them…

By: Bob

Bob — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:58:38 +0000

I like your comment about who voted this legislation in.
P Dunne! well what can one say.
Beige just like JK

By: Spud

Spud — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:27:33 +0000

They’re drunk on power, but it will be the rest of the country who will have to deal with the hangover.