Red Alert

Bulk funding here it comes

Posted by on October 16th, 2009

Anne Tolley will announce a progressive introduction of bulk funding for schools starting soon with the staffing component for guidance and careers counsellors being abolished and a small increase going into the bulk operations grant.

43 Responses to “Bulk funding here it comes”

  1. Spud says:

    Isn’t that what they did with sports funding?

  2. And bulk funding is a bad thing ?

  3. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    From the last time we had ‘bulk funding’ ( please find another name?) many commentators , such as Paul Holmes, had the mistaken belief that schools could pay their ‘best’ teachers more, when of course all teachers in State schools have a collective agreement

  4. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    Yes Bryan it is a bad thing, when you create some schools as losers even before the kids have walked in the door. Its really a back way of breaking the Teacher Unions, by using the pupils as the pawns

  5. Ianmac says:

    It also brings in the spectre of Performance pay. And this would spell the end of cooperation and the beginning of jealously and selfishness.

  6. StephenR says:

    had the mistaken belief that schools could pay their ‘best’ teachers more, when of course all teachers in State schools have a collective agreement

    Could the ‘best’ teachers get paid more if they weren’t in a collective agreement?

  7. greenfly says:

    Bill English has been trying to sell us Bulk Funding for years.
    He’ll be the driver behind this.


    An unhappy ‘teacher-hood’ will provide a worse service, despite their belief in their calling.

  8. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    Better teachers are all ready paid more under the collective agreement. Its covered by years of experience.
    teachers with more qualifications are paid more under the collective agreement
    teachers who have more responsibility are paid more under the collective agreement

    What is it exactly is it StephenR that you think uniquely identifies better teachers that isnt all ready covered

    If you want your children taught by first year teachers you will love ‘bulk funding’.

    Notice too that Cabinet Ministers get the same , no payments for better ministers. Why not ?

  9. StephenR says:

    Better teachers are all ready paid more under the collective agreement. Its covered by years of experience.

    Dunno if that means they’re ‘better’.

    Was a totally innocent question actually, i don’t know much about it, remember my mum talking about it when she was a teacher in the 90s though.

  10. Tigger says:

    Bulk funding of Ministers…you might be on to something.

  11. Jeremy Harris says:

    Bulk funding of Parliament..?

    Could take a bit off Phil Goff and John Key’s salary and give it to the staff that are striking…

  12. Spud says:

    Or we could have a telethon for the poor civil servants! We need performers, any takers?

  13. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    Do people really want schools to compete with each other for teachers by the ability to offer more money.

    Remember this is the ‘no pay rises’ government

    yes I know they did that for the RWC television rights, one state broadcaster competing against another.

  14. Radford says:

    Said with all the confidence of a man who incorrectly claimed the end of modern apprenticeships before the budget.

  15. Ianmac says:

    We hereby launch Bulk Funding of MP Salaries and Performance Pay as decided by the clients (us) in a monthly referendum. BFMPS and PP Act 2009. With the proviso that if running successfully after 5 years, then try it out on Schools. 😎

  16. Tim Ellis says:

    GWW an interesting point, but the best teachers aren’t necessarily those with the most experience. If I’m correct the previous bulk funding arrangements didn’t cover teacher salaries, only school operations however.

  17. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    No Tim you are wrong, Schools are currently ‘bulk funded’ for operations.

    The previous National government added salaries to that with sweeteners. ie they were funded for a higher pay rate than what they currently had to pay teachers.

    So if there was money left over from the salary pool they could spend it on new computers, or an extra staff member. There were rorts on that in you were funded on a set student pupil ratio, so increase the class sizes and save money of staff costs and pay for new office furniture for the Principal.

    Do we bulk fund political parties for MPs salaries, so the leader can pay some more while newbies get only less ?

    These days some schools have a big roll of foreign fee paying students

  18. Rory McCourt says:

    We will fight this! Till they back down (again).

    Bulk funding of salaries is not wanted by Unions, Boards or students (like me!!).
    My decile 2 school, in Tolley’s electorate, would suffer enormously, as we would be forced to pay almost certainly above market for experienced, good teachers, to help us with our 70% Maori, sometimes impoverished students! Bulk funding ruins a school’s culture. The BoT goes from governor to enemy. Teacher’s compete, rather than cooperate, and students are pressured to attend wealthier schools.

    I’ll be damned if they ruin my education.
    It’s war.

  19. Tom Semmens says:

    Bulk funding forged one of the larger nails in the last National administration’s coffin, and I welcome Tolley’s special brand of idiocy if they want to fire up that particular forge again.

  20. Paul says:

    This is a mistake – so much for saying it would not happen! Could see this coming a mile away. What is most unfortunate in this country is that issues like this are never fully explained to joe public – it is yet another way to create loser and winner schools, and pull the wool over the publics eyes. Heck, why not just all go private and let our most vulnerable fall further at risk.
    Good one tolley – bet you Peachy is behind this – its his baby, always has been.
    The upshot is that more kids will fall through the cracks and then we are just a couple of steps from having performance pay, many more school closures, a move away from helping the students who need it most and then…national testing (proven to ruin any education system its been introduced to) and the general demise of all that we have been known around the world for.
    The worm has turned and I predict a massive fall out – thanks National – good one! Heres to moving towards being the worst system in the world! It just beggers belief!

    ps this is just the start – for all of those poor misguided people who voted the nats in to protect thier back pocket and were sold a bunch of rhetoric thinking we would be able to move forward as a country – (sweetened by tax cuts) – well, thanks for that – the ramifications are far wider than you could ever have imagined and now we will have to live with the mess. The stealth by which this government does things is incredible – most of the public have no idea what is happening in education because when people speak up about it they lose contracts and lose jobs – goodness only knows what is happening in health, justice and other key services. (no pun intended)

  21. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    @rory. Its a common misconception that teachers can be paid more under bulk funding.
    All teachers in the state and integrated systems are paid under the collective contract and the salaries would still be paid through the payroll system.
    Its one of the untruths that are used to promote bulk funding, in fact what actually happens is that class sizes will grow as school management diverts money for paying teachers into say sports , or other pet projects.

    So the reality is that class sizes grow AND less experienced teachers are used. This needs to be said over and over otherwise the ‘belief” that some teachers will be paid more will continue to grow

  22. Paul says:

    @ghostwalker – you are quite correct. It erodes further the education system – don’t forget Tolley has been to see the ‘voucher system’ – what we may end up seeing is more sleepy activists waking up and somehow, I cant help thinking -about time.
    Do not underestimate how cross the various orgs that operate in education alone will become – NZEI (primary teachers union) has over 40,000 members – just imagine the fallout for all kiwis if they alone decide to ‘walk out’ – because if our system is constantly disrupted and the foundations eroded by reform that is based on limited research and those that know what is best continue to be ignored – something will be done.

  23. Patrick A says:

    I can’t seem to post. Have I been banned?
    Patrick. I think you have been caught up in another Patricks ban. I’m not a technical expert but may have sorted it. Trevor

  24. Trevor Mallard says:

    I’m not sure you guys are in fact correct. I think the document is a minimum rate rather than paid rate and in any case the use of units means there is much more flexibility than many recognise in teachers pay already.

  25. […] Mallard blogs: Anne Tolley will announce a progressive introduction of bulk funding for schools starting soon […]

  26. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    Thanks Trevor, Im not a teacher or involved in the education system and Im sure there is an army of people needed to work out what teachers are paid and when.
    AS I see it Miss Jean Brodie wouldnt be paid more just because bulk funding came in that she couldnt get under the present system

  27. Tim Ellis says:

    If I were a National front bencher I’d be pretty gleeful at the idea that Labour were again trying to use legitimate government policy as an excuse to stir up more industrial action over bulk funding.

    When I go and vote, I vote for the government to decide education policy, not the PPTA.

  28. JD says:

    “Better teachers are all ready paid more under the collective agreement. Its covered by years of experience.
    teachers with more qualifications are paid more under the collective agreementteachers who have more responsibility are paid more under the collective agreement”

    LOL ever heard of the phrase dead wood? Just because you have more qualifications doesn’t necessarily mean you are a better teacher. This should clearly be measured in terms of their students academic performance.

  29. Trevor Mallard says:

    Two further points. First Tolley promised pre-election not to move towards bulk funding. Secondly the only real advantage of bulk funding (while a minimum rate collective is in place) is the ability to employ fewer teachers than under the Staffing Orders currently in place.

  30. Mac1 says:

    @ Tim Ellis- when I go and vote, I vote for governments which will make and carry out good policy.
    The reappearance of the once rejected policy of bulk funding linked to teacher performance pay means that those affected such as teachers become ‘stirred’- it just requires a stupid policy and a good Union. It doesn’t require a Labour party to stir that mess.
    That conjunction just shows another attempt to spin, Tim. Back to your books.

  31. Alan says:

    Bulk funding works if you reduce the number of experienced teachers on your staff by hiring in those on the lower pay rate thus looking as though you are increasing staffing and therefore better teaching. The crunch comes when the salary caps imposed by bulk funding and associated individual contracts start to conflict with each other… the school then has to make a decision either fire the experienced teachers and recruit cheaper or reduce the staffing and thus increase class sizes or start putting pressure on the community to raise funds to pay the teachers (donations anyone??) or to try funding staffing by becoming a business and recruiting overseas fee-paying students at an even higher rate than occurs now thus reducing delivery to the local students.
    The bulk funding model proved to be inefficient and divisive at all levels in the school community. One wonders if Tolley & co understand any lessons from history?

  32. Sam says:

    Understand lessons from history, Alan? I doubt it.

    All we’ve seen from this government is the regurgitation of stale and failed ideologies. Now all we need is the announcement of the removal of zoning and we’re back in the early 90s! Yay!

    Total misguided ignorance from an incompetent minister and a government with no ideas on how to run the country like they promised during the election. Nation for a brighter future? Brighter for who?

  33. GPT says:

    Why is it that Labour supports bulk funding for criminal legal aid but not for education?

  34. ghostwhowalksnz says:

    GPT why is the Police are ‘bulk funded’ for their normal police work but drink driving enforcement is ring fenced.

    There are many others, in health many areas the money is set aside only for certain types of operations, or say broader areas such as mental health.

    The government covers many areas and there are many was of funding the activities.

    Maintenance of school grounds and paying support staff is better done the local level while paying the professional staff is better done nationally

  35. Swampy says:

    @gww: not all teachers in state schools are part of the collective, anyone on an individual contract could be paid more.

  36. Swampy says:

    @gww: educational professionals in other sectors are paid via bulk funding. BF undermines the union’s collective strength which they get from the centralised wage negotiations, that is the main reason they oppose BF.

  37. Swampy says:

    @Paul – we have had national testing for years – (currently optional) PAT testing and the like.

    Unfortunately this claim is typical of the standard of most of your post – emotive scaremongering.

  38. Swampy says:

    @Paul: We have had national testing for decades – PAT testing which is currently optional. Unfortunately your claim regarding this is on about the same level as the rest of your post, it is scaremongering.

  39. Swampy says:

    @GWW – “when of course all teachers in State schools have a collective agreement”

    Well actually as you should well know, only the teachers who have chosen to join the collective have that. In any school BF or not there is nothing to stop any teacher from being in an individual agreement with a different rate of pay.

  40. Spud says:

    Wow, you are swamping red alert.

  41. Swampy says:

    @ Tom Semmens – Bulk funding was a Labour Party policy introduced over 20 years ago. But it is because of political patronage that we still have today, the convenient fiction that teachers should be covered by the State Sector Act, and that their terms and conditions are negotiated between their unions and the Ministry – even though they are employed by school boards, not by the MOE. This anomaly was the reason BF was introduced in the first place by Labour, and was quite logical to do so. The fact that Labour is prepared to kowtow to the unions and abolish this component of Tomorrows Schools suggest the rest will follow in the future. On the other hand it makes perfect sense for National to reintroduce it. There is a lot of scaremongering because nothing will cause there not to be a collective contract like there is now, it is mainly the teachers’ unions who hate the Tomorrows Schools Reforms most strongly coming out against Bulk Funding because they want all of TS abolished.

  42. Paul says:

    @ swampy – scaremongering? Lets wait and see shall we…the more the system gets done over, the more likely it will be. Watch the trajectory:
    1. Closing schools
    2. National Stds
    3. Killing off the advisory
    5. Bulk funding
    6. Dont forget the night classes
    7. Looking at tokens…
    8. Stating ‘we are the elected government, we can do what we want’ – words to that effect – on breakfast on friday morning (a small power trip)

    I may have forgotten something sorry – now, where do you think this is heading? Who is doing the scaremongering?

  43. Paul says:

    opps – missed 4 – it will come to me