I think it is great that a group of kids watch a TV programme, form an opinion and use that opinion in a formal letter writing exercise. It should happen more often.
While Michael (with the silent h) has got the publicity he wanted for his radio programme, and I’m reluctant to add to it – I just want to put on the record my admiration for the young people involved – and my disbelief at Laws lack of understanding about the age at which young people form opinions.
I agree with both sides of the argument – the kids do have a right to have their views heard and I agree with Laws that maybe those views could have been expressed more politely.
Yes. Kids should get used to writing to express an opinion. In due course they would feel reasonably confident to present at say a Select Committee. The written word can be powerful and once kids believe that, then the industry and care with which they learn to do it well, drives the quality of that writing. (Writing for no audience is a bit pointless.)
Michael comes from the hebrew Mikha’el meaning, who is like God. Perhaps we should use the short form Mick
It would be fun if the entire print media could be persuaded to drop the “h” from his name.
Spud – more politely? I thought the letters were restrained, especially given that Laws has been openly abusive to Maori when speaking about this topic.
Glad you weighed in here Trevor. The children were expressing how they feel and what they believe – and have participated in the process of democracy but expressing those things to an elected official. I’m very proud of them.
I also agree that’s it’s great to see kids getting political at national and local level. I am concerned about their age and more so about what they say.
Michael is correct .. well I think so .. that the teacher was behind this letter campaign and his bias is all over it.
I am worried about what our kids are being taught.
I can only imagine what someone like Ken Mair would tell our kids about all things Maori. I have a feeling, all their problems were/are caused by me and my sort.
Do you know that everyone who challenges Maori opinions are considered racists and or rednecks. There goes mature debate.
I love the meaning of names .. mines John, and it means “Gods gracious gift” which sounds far more accurate than to call the Whanganui harbour a big or great harbour.
The people of Wanganui live next to the river, not on it.
Let’s not get into name calling. I have got into all sorts of trouble in the past doing so and it really is pointless.
Meaningless posturing by the stamp your feet until you get your own way brigade.
I expect the Nation Geographic Board will rule that we have been spelling Wanganui incorrectly for all these years.
And New Zealand will be transformed overnight into a paradise where we all live in harmony and peace.
what about Little Wanganui in the Sth IS .. are they next??
Can someone also tell me the Maori name for Cook Strait .. I’m sure it’s Whanganui something????
I thought someone mentioned they will go for the co name like Mt Egomont/Taranaki etc.
They can call it what they want .. my birth certificate says Wanganui .. end of story.
@Tigger – Yes, I think that polite letters would have been more effective and appropriate than angry ones. I don’t know anything about Laws being abusive – but even if he was, it doesn’t justify children writing impolite letters.
Trevor, please see the attached letter by my five-year old daughter:
Dimmo your daughter could do better than this if you didn’t do the spelling Trevor
HAHAHA
it’s great that Trevor is Red alerts censor .. the irony is is fantastic when you consider what he says during question time
Really Jabba.
Could you reference from Hansard what Trevor says in the chamber that so alarms you?
Deleted vaguely funny but out of context Trevor
I’m honestly neither here nor there on this controversy cos, well, I don’t live there so it’s really none of my business!
I remember signing a petition against the Vietnam War when I was only 12, just turned 12. I decided this alone, and against my parents’ and many teachers’ opinions.
Let the silent h and more be seen, I say. All the letters in my name are heard but often misunderstood, perhaps this is cause for further discussion too?
Michael Laws probably does not believe what he said, was trying for publicity, he has a tedious kind of obviousness about himself. If he does believe it then he’s as simple as a saveloy left on the plate, congealing.
Good on you Phil and great to chat with you the other day about Auckland and so on, at Judy’s. I hope we can make the city a good place for most people to live, despite these greedy crows circling and cawing.
Jabba says “Do you know that everyone who challenges Maori opinions are considered racists and or rednecks. There goes mature debate.”
Now that’s an example of a red neck generalisation.
Micael Laws is being Offensive deleted. Even if true. Trevor
[Please keep it constructive or take it elsewhere - admin]
@spud I don’t know anything about Laws being abusive – but even if he was, it doesn’t justify children writing impolite letters.
Well it couldn’t justify it because laws was abusive in response to the allegedly ‘angry’ letters.
It’s a pretty humorous insight into the self image of the man and supporters though.
We have a grown man; the mayor of mid-sized town and former member of parliament. A man with both a radio show and a newspaper column.
Gets a letter from some school pupils, obviously school work. No matter what you think of their arguments surely writing to mayors about issues is a good think for children to be learning?
I don’t care how ‘angry’ the letters were, the simple facts as they are known are that Laws could only respond by saying words to the effect of:
And then you get all his talkback addicted fan base and various righties on the interwebs a cheering and hooting saying that this sad little bully of a man, ( former mp, mayor, newspaper pontificant and rabble radio host) totally pwnd those school kids.
O RLY?
He is right when he tells us that we should be focussing on more important things than a fight between a Mayor and schoolchildren, after he started a fight with some schoolchildren while a Mayor… Oh no I’ve gone cross-eyed…
@Pascal’s bookie -I’m not a fan of what Laws said in response to the letters – I’m just saying that children should be taught to write letters politely – a sign of good communication. I would think that no matter who the children were or who they were writing to. In my first post I said that I did agree that it was good that children express their views, but there are ways of doing that.
As for the actual fight, I’m neither for nor against Laws or the children. I’m neutral.
P.S. I don’t like Laws’ response either.
We are not sure if those letters were polite since someone else translated them, someone in Michael Laws’ employ. It is easy to make a letter in another language look ‘rude’ if you directly translate the meanings instead of interpreting them.
I do not believe, going on my own child’s mastery of tikanga me te reo Maori at that age, the children would write to any mayor in a rude manner.
One of the key things about tikanga me te reo Maori is showing respect to an elder even if you disagree. It is something I notice Maori children who learn their own culture relish, how they are taught to argue and disagree BUT using diplomacy and certain careful tones, it is a great game to learn with te reo, to the children I have seen in the area of Maori education, anyway.
I think Laws and his staff set the translations up to look rude. let them make the originals public.
Pascal’s Bookie sums it up pretty well.
Laws is a mature (open for debate, I know), experienced politician and debater, who chose to take offence at an unsophisticated attempt to express an emotion on the topic at hand (My wife teaches English and the kids are asked to do exactly that; naturally the subtleties of an adult mind are not yet developed).
Laws then chose to savagely attack the children, their teachers and their school, a scattergun approach, in a manner intended to cow all and sundry into submission. And he certainly did a good job on Sainsbury.
And he was overwhelmed with support via email and callers to his show, and a Herald poll, when I last looked, was running 58-42 in his favour.
Now then, let’s conflate this with the recent pro-smacking referendum which, no matter how it is spun, indicates a widespread desire to commit acts of violence against our children AND the OECD report demonstrating our pitiful lack of concern for the welfare of our children, and this is the inevitable conclusion:
New Zealand society is a deeply hostile environment for children.
So sad.
Some NZers I’ve met are deeply hostile to anyone different or difficult, in a few sectors. I notice for instance, exuberance and vivaciousness can be taken as foolish or over-powering and then, those who share opinions in any way designed for dialogue, often are treated like they’ve sinned or are stupid.
I guess the education system does not serve us as well as it used to. Now, with more night classes cut, even less people will have the chance to broaden their outlook, be more tolerant and understanding.
I remember saying to someone, learning another language is like gaining a new window on the world, every language is a new view on things. They could not see it.
It stuns me some parents want to hit their children and are glad to sign a paper to try and get a ‘right’ to be violent to their children, back.
It sickens me that a mayor, a person supposed to lead the community, chose to insult and dismiss many school children as if they were dirt he wanted to clean away. Even IF they were rude to him, he could have shown a good example and been gracious, asked for further discussion. I doubt they were rude to Mr. Laws though, I think he chose to slant it that way himself.
Yes, it is sad.
It also shows his utter lack of education and insight that he thinks language is not important. Maybe Mr. Laws also needs some night classes? Of course, he can afford to pay for his own, but will he learn better?
You do have to hand it to Mr Laws, though. He does a mighty fine job of keeping his town in the news.
to raewyn i guess you dont understand irony
Laws is such a redneck, and a populist, remember why he was booted out of Parliament, a slight character problem that not many MPs fail.
I grew up in Whanganui for 7 years, can’t understand what Laws is making such a fuss about the spelling of. He should stick to gang patches and other real issues and remember that the name belongs to the whole country, not just Hickville.
Hello Mr Ellis
“You do have to hand it to Mr Laws, though. He does a mighty fine job of keeping his town in the news.”
True, but is it really Mr Laws job as Mayor to keep his town in the public eye by making its community discord national news?
Just to clear something up Raewyn,
I agree with you completely that Laws was totally in the wrong with his response and how he has handled it then. However the letter’s were demanding. One of the girls who worte to Mr Laws read her letter in the news the night it came out and she clearly said a number of times how angry she was and rather than ask the letter demanded that the spelling be changed.
As has already been said you can’t excuse Laws’ behaviour. However the teacher who vetted (has been confirmed a teacher read and gave the OK to them before they were sent) showed poor judgment as well. If what you say is true about the teaching of the language and how to communicate is true then that teacher is not sticking to those principles and is more to blame than the students.
Off thread Please try Trevor
Hi Geek.
If the teachers had edited the letters then they would no longer be letters from children. My resident expert said they were excellent letters from engaged students.
Laws has engaged in the classic political tactics of blaming everyone else, cooking up conspiracies and generally diverting attention from his troubling behaviour. Just read his Sunday column – one long adhominen attack on his favourite stereotypes.
come on Trevor, do I get a supplementry?
Sure jabba as long as it is related to the primary post.
so now when we think of Whanganui we think of a place where gangs roam around in disguise and where the mayor is rude to school children, fabulous. wish i lived there.
*laughs* yeah right.
and Geek, it is entirely fair to say you are angry, sad or whatever emotion in a letter to a leader.
demanding a word is changed when it is wrong? hmmm. so it would be better to politely ask if it could please be changed, sure, okay, maybe right there.
i still have not seen the originals however so have no idea if the ‘rudeness’ is real.
@Raewyn – Great! I’m going to write angry letters to everybody who I disagree with. ROAR!
I go back to Wanganui 1-2 times a year. I once saw a drunk Black Power member walking down the main street. That’s it.
I know where the so called Hells Angles pad is but i have NEVER seen one.
When I lived there, up to about 1981, I only ever saw the Galgoffa (whatever the spHelling is) and on occasions some Mothers from P Nth.
So Raewyn, I think the media are making Wanganui look like a gang town but is it more so than other towns/cities around the country.
When I watch the Documentry Channel .. and the others that show gang life around the world, I think we are lucky .. at least so far.