The ETS select committee is due to report back. I haven’t spoken to members of the committee but putting things together from points of order in the house yesterday:
- The select committee deliberated and resolved to report back thursday last week.
- As part of their deliberation the committee agreed to wait for 5pm that day for the Maori party’s minority points for the commentary.
- The Maori party submitted their comments.
- At that point Peter Dunne had an obligation to include the comments and table the report.
- Key met with the Maori party leadership. The pressure went on and the Maori party tried to withdraw their comments and change their position.
- They have been advised they can’t. Because the deliberation was complete and can’t be reopened.
- Dunne hasn’t tabled the report,
It is simply a disgrace. Frankly I thought both Dunne and Sharples had more integrity.
Boring arguments amongst the parasitical classes of New Zealand on how feed off the productive.
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Dunne and Sharples and Sharples have had good teachers on integrity over the last 9 years.
You can hardly pretend to be shocked when you find they have actually noted the lessons
Mark, do you seriously believe what you’re saying?
Every single thing that you don’t like seems to be easily categorised in your head as ’9 loooong years of a Labour government’.
Get real. Say something substantial.
it’s called deal making. oh my god they doing a deal. shocking. Labour never did any deals with Peters.
“intergrity”?
Interesting. Once again National are bending the mechanisms of democracy past breaking point, and once again they are showing how desperate they are to avoid confronting the urgent challenges of climate change.
Please keep us posted.
r0b – “bending the mechanisms of democracy past breaking point”
on a blog owned by labour that introduced the EFA – that is hilarious .
last week Labour had its knickers in a twist because National made deal with ACT at the expense of the Maori Party.
Now they have their knickers in a twist because National is doing a deal with the Maori Party at the expense of ACT.
there’s a sort of consistancy i suppose but it just goes to show Labour really just opposes anything and everything. One minute they demand National should be taking more notice of the Maori Party the next they demand that they shouldn’t.
Angus it has to be the hardest part of being in oposition after such a long term in power.
Every thing you say needs to be done people can say “well why didn’t you do it when you had the chance” and every time you attack a process you have 9 years of your own performance to be dredge through to find a similar act upon which to hang the hypocrit label.
It is going to be very hard for Labour to get people past looking at them as the party that ruled for 9 years and to see them as the party to lead in the future. Unfortunatly as long as you see a lot of the same faces in the front row who were there during the 9 the links will be made.
Neil have you considered for a moment that Labour does not want a watered down ETS and a dal with either th Maori or the ACT party will do so. Can’t fault them for being upset about that.
Regarding integrity, the only think that is constant is the stupididity of those who thought there was a time that politics had “integrity”: It’s a perception game.
For the cycnics, it’s hard to convince them of anything other than their warped view of the world.
So to those who shout hypocrisy and integrity, I ask you: would you go and find a mirror to shout at?
on a blog owned by labour that introduced the EFA – that is hilarious
Rabbit on about the EFA all you like biker, even if it were true that it was democratically dodgy (it isn’t) that would be nothing more than a pathetic 5 year old “they started it!” defence.
National are the government, and they are responsible for their own behaviour. And they display a notable contempt for the mechanisms of parliament and
democracy.
“Can’t fault them for being upset about that.”
no problem with Labour wanting different things with the ETS but the MP and National are perfectly entitled to do a deal.
still “watered down” is in the eye of the beholder. I’m not wedded to any particular set of ways to deal with global warming and think there is most likley a range of things to do. A range that one can have legitimate disagreement on rather than accusations over who really really cares for the environment – which is all too common.
I generally turn off when soemone starts claiming their way is the only way.
So I’ll see what comes out of this and make a judgement then.
My post is about parliamentary process which has been abused in this case – interesting that not one of you Nact apologists are prepared to defend them on that point.
No, they’re asking that the MP have some backbone and stand by what they’ve said (ie, the minority report which calls Nationals ETS weak).
Trev, despite my political views being very different to yours, I agree with you on this issue and have made my own calls here . The Maori Party MUST table the minority report that they had attached to the select committee report, it was attached before the deadline and was attempted to be pulled after the deadline… simple.
I had some sympathy for David Parker yesterday when listening to question time, and that is something I thought would never happen!
Lockwood has been a good speaker thus far, this is probably the first real test of his neutrality.
My post is about parliamentary process which has been abused in this case – interesting that not one of you Nact apologists are prepared to defend them on that point.
It’s very dodgy.
However, the question remains whether this is a matter of order for the House, or something that should be raised through the Office of the Clerk, or potentially via a letter to the Speaker outlining an alleged contempt committed by the Chair.
It’s nice to have it out there, but points of order seem an inappropriate mechanism to have the matter resolved.
d’oh – that first bit is a quote that was supposed to be inset =)
So we have consensus then, Neil is (deleted abuse Trevor) has no interest in Parliaments processes!
Back to the issue. The Maori Party’s Mana will be taking a bit of a bath in the next week then aye?
I thought Pete Hodgson was being a little harsh expecting Lockwood Smith to know of a precedent from 120 years ago.
“No, they’re asking that the MP have some backbone’
do you think that’s the real issue here? I mean when has Labour been so pure about parliamentary process.
National and the MP are doing a deal – sidelining both ACT and Labour and Labour’s response is to nitpick.
and why is it that for the MP to have a backbone or mana they have to do what Labour wants? They can do deals just like anyone else and they can win and loose battles just like anone else.
“Nact apologists”
always voted for Helen Clark but intersting to see how you deal with differing opinions.
Helen would be proud of the way the Nats/UtdF/Maori parties have fobbed you guys off. Poor old Parker had his bottom lip quivering at 1 stage yesterday.
And yes Trevor, i agree that abusing process is bad BUT!!!! monkey see monkey do.
I must say, I always thought that Lockwood was a bit of a prat BUT I have changed my mind. Labour have been given far more rope than Wilson would have allowed. It’s good to see a decent speaker at last.
Luke, Smith screwed up and should apologise to Parker. And so should Dunne.
process should always be followed (Foreshore and Seabed!!) so if Lockwood Smith stuffed up then he should apologise. He was getting advice during the debate so it seems he and the clerks all had a bad day.
I still like the way he is going though and he does say sorry for his mistakes .. I don’t imagine M Wilson did .. oh that’s right, she (and Helen) never made mistakes.
What a laughable thread. The trolls don’t even have any subtlety. Tell you what, let’s just save some time and have a quick preview:
National cancel 2011 elections … opposition kick up a fuss …
Troll Response: “but, but, but Helen Clark was horrible, i hated Helen Clark!!11!! yes i did i really did!!”
Pathetic.
Do you believe this abuse of OUR parliament is acceptable, yes or no? If so, why?
You know what Sammy I took every thing you said seriously and thought you were making some good points until the whole election cancelation quip.
Hyperbole is one thing but that was just stupid.
I have one question. Is it unheard of for parties to try and delay a process like this to carry out further negotiations? It would seem to me that a delay that results in a consensus is better than sending it to the house as is and watching polititions take jabs at each other like they are in a school yard about it.
Sammy, you are right of course. Therefore, my response is “diddums”.
Peter Dunne – September 2008.
“We can be the party you can trust to keep the big guys honest.”
Dear Peter
FAIL
Cheers
Dominic
Geek The answer to your question is yes. This approach is unheard of. Once a committee has resolved to report back and the time for receipt of minority views has past you can not go backwards.
Trevor,
What is the process to resolve this kind of stuckness (? it’s the best word I can think of
In the end Dunne will have to table the report. all the material and timing will then be available. If what has been reported is accurate the maori party will be criticised for their lack of backbone, Dunne for his abuse of process and Key won’t look flash for his pressure on both.
“the maori party will be criticised for their lack of backbone”
you and the rest of the left wing blogosphere have already done that. Which amounts to not much. But you might have to come to terms with the fact that the MP don’t have to jump when you shout jump.
The Labour Party aren’t really in a good position to be passing judgement on whether or not the Maori Party has a backbone or mana. But I suppose all that support for Winston Peters could be construed as courage of a sort. But maybe that was the wrong party to back.
Neil give me a precedent for a party having a minority reort agreed by a caucus, submitting it and then attempting to withdraw it after Key told them to.
Not regarded as mana-enhancing in Wainuiomata.
mallard – National will make mistakes without a doubt, but any slip they have made is small and whilst possibly not mana enhancing in Wainuiomata, isnt that big of a deal.
All this stuff is way off topic -biker run these lines on Kiwiblog please Trevor
You could try positive politics but – I guess thats just not in your blood.
biker – to call this type of thing a ‘mistake’ is misrepresenting what happened. I assume you also mean that Wilkinson lying about why she couldn’t make a meeting was a ‘mistake’, that Bennett releasing private information was a ‘mistake’, that Key not revealing why he sacked Worth was a ‘mistake’. These are lies and wilful attempts to bury the truth. Not ‘mistakes’.
balance deleted because it follows biker off thread Trevor
Top Clinton official calls ETS a “sham”:
http://business.theage.com.au/business/carbon-tax-better-clinton-official-20090826-ezu5.html
Andrei calls out the parasitical classes. ( Off thread Trevor )
Whatever else is said on this post, I would like to congratulate Trevor for putting in the hard yards in a very public setting.
Some of his colleagues would find their debating skills sharpened very rapidly if they joined in, exhausting though it may be.
I’ve frequently wondered why so many of the broader left consider M?ori mana-enhancement a punchline.
I’m not saying I fully understand what mana-enhancing means, but I suspect a lot of us don’t. In the post-election episode of Agenga (as it then was), Professor Whatarangi Winiata (M?ori Party President) had been explaining it for a while, and after being asked if entrenchment was a bottom line (“no”) was challenged by Barry Soper that if National still planned to scrap the M?ori seats “that wouldn’t be mana-enhancing, would it?”. He replied that it could be, as National might be seen as giving notice of their rangatiratanga.