Don’t often cut and paste media statements but David asks a valid question. I know both principals, they were both leading sportspeople, have inherited and developed leading but very different schools.
Like most kiwis I’ve watched the video but I’m not sure that pushing young men away from a sport they love for over a year is not over the top.
The other concern I have is the suggestion that because boys from one school “fessed up” and were honest about their involvement they were treated more harshly than those who could only be dealt with by way of video evidence.
Labour MP David Cunliffe, whose New Lynn electorate includes Kelston Boys High School, wants to know why the lightest penalty handed out to a Kelston Boy after last weekend’s rugby brawl in the game against Auckland Grammar, is still many times heavier than any penalty handed out to a Grammar student.
David Cunliffe said: “There is no excuse for brawling on the rugby field, but it takes two to tangle. So why did the ‘least guilty’ Kelston boy get a sentence far greater then the worst offender in the Auckland Grammar side?
“The brawl did no credit to either side, or to the game of rugby. From the video it looks like a Kelston player threw the first full punch, but both teams were widely involved in the melee that followed. Participation from the sideline clearly did not help and that is something we all need to reflect upon.”
David Cunliffe said one Grammar boy received no penalty from the Auckland Rugby Union and four were suspended by up to 6 weeks, but five Kelston boys were suspended for between 10 and 16 months.
“In other words, the ‘least guilty’ Kelston boy received a sentence 6 to 7 times longer than the ‘guiltiest’ Grammar boy.”
David Cunliffe said that as local MP and patron of the Suburbs Rugby Club that draws players from the area, he shared Kelston Boys principal Steve Watt’s struggle to understand “the variation in the punishments.
“I love rugby, but what I don’t want is to see the game ruined by brawling or cheating.
“I respect the role of the ARU disciplinary panel, but something about this ruling doesn’t seem right, even though the ARU says it has judged each case on its individual merits.”
David Cunliffe said Steve Watt had “responded by the book to a tough situation. He suspended the worst offenders even before the ARU hearing.
“I hope the Kelston players now consider appealing the ARU decision in the proper way. Until there is an appeal, they can’t defend themselves publicly.”
Because the Kelston boys instigated the fight and threw the first punches as I understand?
Jares- No they admit that one Kelston boy threw the first punch. But some of the lesser involved Kelston boys got more severe punishments than one of the more heavier involved Grammar Boys.
It is also no wonder that this happens when our society portrays professional rugby players as the ultimate role models in NZ society, yet often this sort of carry on is seen at the highest level of the sport as well.
I must say – I cannot understand it. Even if the first punch was thrown by Kelston – if retaliate its fighting and they all receive punishment.
The disparity in this is disgusting.
@ leakedemail – Role models are set by the family. My kids understand that Sir Ed etc are great men who are fantastic role models – they understand that the All Blacks are simply sportsmen. (and yes – Im a big AB fan).
I hope that they appeal and I hope that the judiciary in this case are held to account.
I too am concerned about this, Mr Cunliffe. Brawling on the rugby field is a very serious offence, and on the one hand these boys (from both schools, who are obviously the elite of their schools) shouldn’t be seen to get off lightly. They need to learn the lesson that brawling, pushing and punching on the rugby field isn’t part of the game and isn’t accepted by society.
On the other hand I too am concerned that just banning from playing a game which will often be a real focual point of their lives is pretty harsh treatment for 16 and 17 year old kids. I don’t know what the solution is, perhaps shorter bans with a requirement for community service/helping out a charity/painting each other’s school might do more to get them to think about their actions than excluding them from the game.
Could this be the first post on red alert that everyone agrees with?
What a bunch of bugger all. So there was a punch up on the rugby field – whip-de-do; how did it turn into a national kerfuffle? Is there nothing that do-gooders don’t want to stick their nose in?
@ Hooligan – it turned into a national kerfuffle because it was captured on camera. And I’m pretty sure it wasn’t “do-gooders” who stuck their oar in, but the NZRU. Frankly, I can’t see what the fuss is about. Certainly punching an opponent is illegal, but if it brought a mandatory 15-month suspension, some All Black teams of the past would have been pretty thin.
Firstly it is pleasing to see that a punishment was handed out. Secondly, I agree, all involved should have got the same punishment. In Italian Football league, a team was dropped to the second division when the were found guilty of a sin. The authorities should do the same here, drop both schools down a division for one year at least. Perhaps then both principals will react more seriously than they way they did. As a coach in sport I do not tolerate any action of a player that leads to players getting into altercations with the opposition.
@ Indiana “As a coach in sport I do not tolerate any action of a player that leads to players getting into altercations with the opposition.”
You must be the worst boxing coach ever
boxing’s a sport?
Meh – its an art, but for the purpose of the joke – lets call it a sport.
One thing I haven’t heard is what are the police doing. They have evidence of multiple assaults so I would have thought they are obligated to act.
One thing I haven’t heard is what are the police doing. They have evidence of multiple assaults so I would have thought they are obligated to act.
The Kelston boys were hit hard because their parents had voted Labour, sorry folks, but as hard as it is to deal with it’s just “the way it is”
@Al – that would explain the survey of players parents before the game – to make sure the right ones could be punished.
Seriously – do all lefties think like that?
I thought the rule on the field was that it didn’t matter who started it, if there is retaliation, both cop a red? The so-called ’sentences’ stink, but what can we expect from a partisan kangaroo court of street-jurists? I hope the Kelston boys appeal, and a couple of good pro-bono lawyers take up their cause.
look people .. the problem was that is was caught on camera and the media went crazy. Back in the 70’s when I was at school there was the odd brawl were we got the cane or expelled end of story.
The crap about race is madness and rubbish.
If the cameras were NOT there, the suspensions would have been light but because of the blow by blow coverage the Rugby Union was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Those caught on tape swinging should be expelled. sorry about that but there you go. deleted Trevor on about young mean blah blah blah. Harden up.
And if they can’t get Pro-bono there is always the gravy train of legal aid to jump onto
What can we expect, when Kelston students are up against the most arrogant and self-righteous school in the country.
Kings boys and old-boys at least know they paid for their privilege.
Load of nonsense the verdict was clearly racist. Oh….
The sentences handed down to these kids (all of them from both schools) were utterly ridiculous. I’d hazard a guess that of the squads, rugby is all plenty of them have going for them and in 5 years time plenty will be there or there abouts playing for the Blues perhaps even the All Blacks.
There was a fight. So what? A professional player throwing a punch doesn’t result in a year off rugby. Yes professional players have to earn a living but these kids (and they are only kids) are at Kelston and definitely Grammar (as I’m sure most of the squad at Grammar are in their proud tradition – out of zoners) for their skills in playing rugby.
What do they do now for a year? Study? Little wonder some were reported to be in tears.
Looks like there was a good reason for it:
“For a player who has no more school rugby this year (the Kelston players), their school rugby competition does not begin until early May 2010 – nine months away. The effect of that player’s suspension does not begin until that point.
“The effect of a four week suspension for one player, in terms of matches he will miss, may therefore be the same as the effect of a 10 month suspension on another player, depending on their respective playing commitments. Both are effectively suspended from four 1st XV matches.”
The committee said the number of games scheduled for the players who were in the representative squads was also taken into account when deciding suspensions.
Ahhh the difference having the information makes huh.
Glad I didnt go running to the press like Cunliffe without (labour) yet again not getting the full story.
BIKERKIWI says:
Ahhh the difference having the information makes huh.
Glad I didnt go running to the press like Cunliffe without (labour) yet again not getting the full story.
So what’s the news, Moped Man? The response as it played out is still over the top, and a far more severe treatment that some AB thugs have ever experienced.
In fact, the unduly harsh penalty, seems to be an over-compensation to the angst/boredom modern professional rugby has induced in people like me. Getting tough on “thugs” is, in my opinion, intended to be an antidote to widening negative perceptions about rugby.
Most of the comment I hear says that the punishments are extreme, absurd, ridiculous and unfair/racist.
The match was the ticket to the final,the precipitating moment crucial and the players young and inexperienced.
But if it appeals to your deep visceral needs, Biker Kiwi, go for it. If Cunliffe like the principal didn’t see the fairness, I guess he should have held his tongue and waited for you to answer his unasked questions.
Does it mean though that they cannot train, attend pre-season events and any end of year school tours/sports exchanges etc…? And what about playing any other sports?
Also will it rule any ineligible for prizes, school awards etc etc….?
The punishment was bloody harsh for a bunch of school kids. The presentation as a 4 match ban would have been a lot easier than x months or years.
Indeed Cactus “The presentation as a 4 match ban” would have made all the difference. There would be no issue with that at all, and the media would not have even given it a second look.
Still there will be people like Galeandra who have to result to insults and dont believe that they should have been punished.
Sad really.
Perhaps if we knew the previous record of the kids the punishment would make a bit more sense – if the ones who received a year off rugby have a history of behaving like thugs on a sports field then perhaps their punishment is justified.
If on the other hand they have an exemplary record and they just lost it on this one occasion the punishment seems rather odd…. but then again there’s a lot of very odd people in positions of power in Rugby in NZ.
Well it may have helped perceptions if the father of a kid at Grammar wasn’t on the judiciary…..”little” things like that also help to create an environment of perceived fairness.
Conflict of interest folks cannot be contracted out of with a wink, nudge or a “he will be fair he’s a good bloke”. COI is as much about perception as it is about reality. How could a former Policeman be so dense?
It’s bullshit that a parent from the school is on a judiciary judging anything to do with the school.
Kelston should now be appealing the decision on the basis it is a crock and having the whole thing thrown out for the kangaroo court it was.
Have a read of this. I don’t often read the sports pages, but my husband said I should read this opinion piece. I am passing it on, because I kept just saying yes, yes, yes… nailed it!
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/sport/2778426/Honey-I-blame-the-kids
Unfreakingbelievable. A scrap by teenage boys in a game of rugby makes the national news. And they get punished. Is this another result of 9 years of a Labour government?. What a sad world it is becoming.
Will there be a post soon on the anti smacking referendum result? Majority views are ignored at governments’, both this one and the last one, I hope National don’t make the same mistake – a corrective smack was never child abuse.