The National Party’s hatred of public transport has been exposed in the Waikato, with their Hamilton-based MPs arguing against a Hamilton City Council proposal to establish a passenger train service between Hamilton and Auckland.
Now why would local MPs argue against adding an additional service for local people, particularly when a recent survey showed 85% support from ratepayers to subsidise such a service? Very curious.
Now, before bloggers trot out the Crosby-Textor line about how much Kiwirail cost to buy back remember that we had to buy it back because the Nats sold it in the first place so it doesn’t wash as a the reason why they are so opposed a passenger transport service between Hamilton and Auckland.
Nat MP David Bennett’s contention that he doesn’t want a diesel train polluting the atmosphere doesn’t stack up given that the proposal would take 70+ cars off the road each day and that he is in the thick of fast-tracking a rule change that allows juggernaut diesel-pumping trucks on our roads that are simply not built to carry those weights.
On that issue, both Waipa District Council and Environment Waikato have voted to oppose the juggernaut rule change. Both Waipa and Waikato District Council’s noted the pressure coming from Government to stop promoting rail when they debated their positions on the rule change. You can sense how intimidated the councils were feeling by reading the Waikato Times article here.
For the record, Hamilton is our fourth-largest city and it is 120kms away from Auckland (largest city). Now where else in the developed world would you find that situation with a railway line between the two, the Government owning the railways and the train but still no passenger train service between the two?
So, who is prepared to hazard a guess on the real reason the Nats oppose rail transport.
As a Waikato girl by birth, Aucklander by nature, and living in Hamilton by choice, I am throughly delighted by the idea of a regular train gig chugging the willing and the weary between the hustle and pace of Auckland and the tranquility and bliss of Kirikiriroa.
For Hamilton NEEDS this and if the David Bennett can not see the rail cars for truck tyres then more fool him.
This ISN’T just about getting those Hamilton side to Auckland but getting Aucklanders to Hamilton! This city is growing, it’s awakening, it’s progressive and dare I say it quite happening.
We have industy here, ground breaking, innovative industries, awe inspiring science and technologies but we are the “cow town” when it comes to the commercial, the headquarters, the corporates. We need to attract that and ensure there is attractive infrastructure to support the progressive business leaders who want to move to Hamilton and make Kirikiriroa their corporate’s HQ.
Yes I want Hamilton to lose it’s cow town label, but making it glorified truck stop isn’t exactly a step up the cosmopolitian ladder, more like a step off.
John Key waxes lyrical about his series of Great Rides; how wonderfully green and eco and urbane of him and dastardly clever I might add. Get the eco-tourists off the roads, on their bikes and on to the beaten tracks. The trucks on the highways will be almost ant like when seen from a far away mountain ridge. Perfect. It’s all in the marketing you see. “Look”, he’ll smile and beguile, “that’s no truck, it’s a hybrid Morris Minor running on hemp oil and pixie dust. Now peddle my pretties, peddle like the wind.”
A true high-speed link isn’t possible – as that would require a completely new line on a wider gauge with all crossings being separated from existing rail lines and roads.
However, a 160 kph link is realistic – at least in the longer term. That could mean a 45-55 minute trip from Hamilton to Auckland. You would need a 3rd track throughout the whole Auckland urban area so the train didn’t get stuck behind current all-stopping suburban services, and then you’d also need to fix up the alignment between Pukekohe and Hamilton quite a lot to smoothen out corners and so forth.
Not sure you’d get much change out of $1 billion. However, the economic benefits of having a transport link between Auckland and Hamilton that took under an hour and was independent of traffic congestion could be significant. The link could continue to Tauranga – maybe a 90 minute Auckland-Tauranga trip could be possible. That might not make economic sense now, but if Hamilton and Tauranga both end up with populations of 250,000 or more then it might well make sense.
Particularly if the line was electrified and the only alternative was paying $5 a litre for petrol in 10 years time.
I took the train to work this morning, as I try to do at least once a week. Very smooth journey from Upper Hutt to Wellington. Gave me time to read both the DomPost and the Upper Hutt Leader.
I think the staff at Kiwirail are doing a great job. Shame they are having to deal with such a maintenance back-log due to the underinvestment during the decade of privatisation!
Good to hear Chris. I am hoping that Labour has left behind its roads-centric transport policies of the last decade and now realise a more balanced transport system is a necessity in a future dominated by the effects of peak oil and the need to reduce CO2 emissions from transport.
I am enjoying this discussion and learning interesting stuff I didn’t know before.
On the costings, the initial service the HCC is proposing to run, which entails two return trips using the Silver Fern carriages, would cost the taxpayer around $1m although the exact figures are being worked out with KiwiRail as we blog. The plan is to build at least one new station at “The Base” in North Hamilton and so the fledgling service would cost around $2m.
The Waikato Expressway when completed will have cost $2b. The significant progress that Labour made on this expressay has already reduced the drivetime between Auckland and Hamilton by around 15 mins. The additional $700m+ that the Nats have committed will reduce the drive time by just 10 minutes in 10 years’ time!
Jarbury, you seem to have forgotten Labour’s buy back of Kiwirail and our Sea Change strategy which was a committment to the use of Sea, Road and Rail in moving freight around NZ – not to mention the funding for Auckland train electrification.
Sue, I do accept that Labour eventually pulled their heads out of the sand and last year were much more pro-public transport than they had previously been. I think last year’s spike in oil prices kind of forced them into that.
However, they still proposed spending $2.5(ish) billion on a 4.5km ROAD with a very dodgy cost-benefit ratio (Waterview Connection) and still spent about $7 on roads for every dollar on public transport. Electrification should have been completed by now, in time for the rugby world cup next year. Integrated ticketing should have been sorted out yonks ago and we should now be finding ways to fund the CBD Rail Tunnel. I am sorry but I just can’t accept the argument that Labour supported a balanced transport policy throughout their last term in government (2008 possibly excluded).
That said, I’m trying not to dwell in the past. National are clearly a lot worse – as was obvious in the changes they made to the government policy statement. I just wish Darren Hughes would critique transport policy more – the only thing I’ve heard from him on the matter seems to be him pushing for Transmission Gully. An insanely expensive motorway with a cost-benefit ratio of 0.3-0.5. He needs to do better in my opinion.
For example, Labour should be asking when we’re going to find out how Auckland’s electric trains will be funded. They should be asking why it will take so long to implement integrated ticketing in Auckland. They should be criticising the embarrassing lack of analysis Steven Joyce did when coming up with his roads of National (big N) significance and so forth.
So yeah. Some improvement, but definitely need to do better is my report card. LOL.
For the reason that the expressway will cost $2B is enough for me to strongly support the rail option over the road option.
Good to hear MPs are using rail to get to parliament. I think tax payers would be keen on meeting their local MP on a train than for them to pay for a taxi service everymorning to work
jarbury says:
August 6, 2009 at 10:42 am
“They should be criticising the embarrassing lack of analysis Steven Joyce did when coming up with his roads of National (big N) significance and so forth.”
‘lack of analysis’ in the light of Hon Trevor Mallard’s letter to the Speaker of Parliament House about Key’s misleading information in the House on whether ‘rigorous analysis was done’ on the cycleway ’smacks’ more of national’s quality of government with a small n and a small g and a big helping of downright not lol but lie. Lol – nothing to laugh about on the lowgrade quality of this government, Jarbury.
Jum, that was my report card for Labour. My report card for National is epic fail. F- (if that’s possible) and certainly no laughing matter.
I’ve got to endorse Jarbury’s observations because it has struck me since returning to New Zealand last year that not only are National’s transport policies counterproductive and inefficient but Labour’s weren’t all that much better. In terms of public transport things have improved in Auckland since 2002-3 (when I last lived here, briefly) and they’re considerably better than they were in 1979 when I left the country but we’re starting off from a pretty low base. Overall there seems to have been a real failure at a political level to address some of the key issues and an evident hankering to pursue short term but populist measures: the Waterview connection is a classic case in point. I think much of the problem is that many New Zealand politicians haven’t experienced what an efficient public transport network can do, so they don’t see any benefit in pursuing it.
Jarbury,
I’ll argue for only an F. Kiwirail are still getting some new rolling stock.
That’s the only positive I could come up with tho.
Well that Nats haven’t cancelled electrification (yet), they haven’t cancelled integrated ticketing (yet) and they have directed NZTA to increase their subsidy for parts of ProjectDART that were to be funded by the regional fuel tax. So perhaps I was being a tad harsh.
Still waiting for a NEW public transport project to be announced by them though. Not holding my breath.
Good to know someone’s listening
A few potential follow up questions:
1) What’s the minimum BCR he would consider necessary to proceed with such a project?
2) Why has he not considered public transport projects of national significance, like Auckland’s CBD rail tunnel (which ARTA estimates will generate $2.4 billion in economic benefits)?
3) Did his analysis consider rising oil prices and the need to reduce CO2 emissions from the transport sector?
4) To what extent did him having a beach house north of Auckland influence his decision to include the Wellsford to Puhoi road of National significance?
5) As the “Transmission Gully” project has a BCR of 0.3-0.5, is he going to drop the Wellington to Levin road of National significance?
Jarbury,
Didn’t he have a waffle about BCRs a month or two ago in response um… a question by Sue Kedgley? perhaps about transmission gully?
Wow – I could not have been vaguer could I?
Jarbury,
Here: http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Business/QOA/c/8/d/49HansQ_20090625_00000012-12-Roading-Transmission-Gully.htm
Yeah I remember that, he said that “the other options for that corridor weren’t any better”.
All the more reason to drop the whole road of National significance in my opinion. How about double-tracking the rest of that section of railway instead, and electrifying up the Levin…..
Oh, and if any Labour MPs are reading. Could someone PLEASE ask Steven Joyce when we’re going to find out how our electric trains in Auckland will be funded. We were meant to find out by the end of July.
Interesting article on the matter here: http://www.theaucklander.co.nz/local/news/shunted-into-70s/3902276/
I see that the supplementary questions are only about a “why don’t you spend even MORE on roads!”
Sigh.
And Clayton Cosgrove’s bill about airport noise at Christchurch airport is to allow more noise with no controls and override any rights residents might have had.
Sigh.
Hear! Hear!
This is certainly an important issue and I am glad that you are championing it.
Hi. Just a heads up – I’ll be speaking in the House on this in a couple of minutes. Tune in.
Cheers Sue. Great to hear Red Alert being promoted in parliament
BTW: Public transport use in Auckland hits 25 year high: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10589162
@ Jarbury – but we are still behind the amount of use we had in 1984.
Also – it dosnt take into account the increase in the population or the number of people working in Auckland – Im sure you will find people using their cars has gone up by a considerably higher figure.
bikerkiwi – if you consider how shocking things had got by 1994 then it’s obvious we’ve improved a lot since then.
The main point is: public transport use is increasing, road use is not. So why are we throwing all our money at more roads?
Ask Labour – how much were they willing to spend in clarks electorate on a tunnel?
bikerkiwi – I have been very critical of Labour’s transport policies too. For example: http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/08/06/labour-and-public-transport-a-dilemma/
My vision for intercity travel on electrified lines using High Speed tilt trains
Te Puke-Tauraunga- Hamilton- Auckland 3 return services
Taupo (using new Taupo- Rotorua line) – Rotorua- Hamilton Auckland 3 return services
Overlander 3 return services
Cambridge- Hamilton- Auckland peak hour commuter service
With these we could have an hourly hour long service from Hamilton all trains (except for maybe the commuter one) going via the Airport to the City
And we could have trains to Whangarei via the North Shore (3 return services)
[...] you’d like to see a bit of Red Alert getting a mention. It was really useful to have your comments of support for the Hamilton-Auckland Rail – it just goes to show the worth of the interaction on [...]
Governments hate railways because they suck so much from the public purse. They don’t account for things in terms of trucks or cars off the roads, because those vehicles are a licence to print money for governments of any hue. No government, of any persuasion, is ever going to put real money and serious thought into public transport simply because they don’t make money out of it. Until the fuel crisis begins to cut deep, then things like a train between two cities will always receive covert political hostility. I strongly suspect Labour bought back the railway system as a kind of ‘bad joke.’ They knew they were going to be out of power so took the opportunity to give National the biggest fiscal headache they could find. I’m sure any Hamilton-Auckland will be as thoroughly sabotaged as the current Helensville-Auckland service has. I think we poor Kiwis are stuck with our wretched cars for a good few years yet.
In an attempt to get this post to the top of the most comments list …
I’m writing this comment on the Overlander as I commute home from Palmerston North. I’m getting heaps of work (and not work) done, dinner was lovely, I have an L&P and an afghan sitting next to me. As they always do, the cheerfully professional Alun, Takina and Tina are keeping us all well fed, sorting out the tourists confusions about where things are in Wellington and discussing possible 7s costumes for 2010.
I can’t imagine why anyone would choose to drive!
How reliable is the timing of the Overlander? I guess because it comes from Auckland I might be worried that it could end up being 30 or 60 minutes late.
Jarbury,
It’s never early (well never more than a couple of minutes), I think it follows in a suburban unit so it can’t get ahead.
Today it was 20 mins late which is pretty unusual. Last week it was on time, I think the week before too. I’ve once had it replaced by a train, and once about an hour late.
I think the trick is that it can make up a lot of time once it’s whizzing along the straight, but it can’t ever pass that unit, so if it arrives at PN about 25 mins late it’ll still get me back to Wellington roughly on time.
Today we were late cos it was late out of the Waikato (I think) then hadn’t quite made up enough time to get to Waikanae to cross the Capital Connection so we had to wait near Otaki to cross.
So the short answer is it’s pretty good about being on time to Wellington, the medium length answer is double tracking would help and I guess might mean it would get in earlier.
That should read “replaced by a bus” – oops!
That got us in on time too, but I couldn’t work.
Thanks for that Anita. I caught it from Auckland to Wellington in January this year – a fantastic way to see the North Island!
Getting back to the issue at hand, I wonder what our chances are of getting National to part with $1.5 billion to build the Auckland CBD Rail Tunnel? Not great I guess.
The Nats hate rail because they dont know better. They have this car-centric idealogy which is hurting out country so much-especially our biggest city Auckland. No wonder our Minister of Transport was once quoted saying he’s only been in a bus a couple of times. What do you expect from him? I agree with Jarbury. Why do we have roading projects of national significance but no public transport projects of national significance?
Their views on sustainable transport make me cringe. I was talking to Nick Smith last year (our Minister for the Environment), and when I raised the issue of public transport, he kept going on and on about ELECTRIC CARS as some sort of an excuse to build more and more roads. Whaat he doesnt realise is that electric cars will be VERY expensive for a long long time and the common man will not be able to afford them. They might have also forgotten that electric cars may also cause congestion.
It’s sad that they are spending billions and billions on roading projects in Auckland whereas the public transport system is third rate and any new project is either postponed, cancelled or opposed. Even some third world countries I have been to do much better.
bikerkiwi says:
August 7, 2009 at 10:04 am
Hey bikerkiwi, ask Maurice Williamson when he was opposition Transport spokesperson about the interview with AA magazine in which he said National’s first roading project would be the Kopu Bridge because he lived across it.
D’ya think Key/Joyce let that project go through in the first orders to shut up Williamson when he lost his transport portfolio for being useless, well for being a NAct I suppose. Whatever, it was still about paybacks for the boys.
Efficient rail (and ferry) throughout New Zealand with New Zealand feeder truck firms transporting freight to and from the railway is the ideal for a narrow-shaped country like New Zealand. Timely passenger services for people’s needs from the early morning worker to the late night partygoer is a sensible goal and every person benefits whether it is the parent saved the road trip to school or the beneficiary not buying a clapped out car they can’t afford, the driver who doesn’t drive at night and so on.
Obviously, NAct won’t follow this empathetic philosophy because they need to charge all New Zealanders for all the WOF, licences, fuel, fines, tolls, car sales income, etc. to give the bulk of tax cuts to a small section of global fat cats.
Trains are for everyone. They are safe and the only outlay is for the ticket. Very easy on the budget.
It will be a worthwhile election issue to pursue. It proves my belief that NAct is about money and Labour is about people.
Just want you all to know that the Labour caucus is using public transport to travel from Wellington to Wanganui and New Plymouth via Levin for a community caucus visit. Bus though, not train unfortunately.
Some telling insights into Steven Joyce’s cluelessness on transport issues are shown up in an excellent blog post by Joel Cayford: http://joelcayford.blogspot.com/2009/08/steven-joyce-visits-aucklands-regional.html
My thoughts: http://transportblog.co.nz/2009/08/10/our-transport-minister/
Overall, it seems like Joyce denies peak oil, he thinks there are problems in changing too quickly away from our auto-dependent society (although he never says what those problems are) and he think that the global finanicial crisis caused the spike in oil prices last year (when actually the financial crisis led to prices crashing).
Wow. Even I didn’t think he was that clueless.
Yeah I read that. You didn’t think he was clueless? Well now you know. Our transport miinistry is being run by a petrol-head who has got no clue about public transport, emissions and peak oil. God save us!
Oh I’ve known ever since March that he was clueless – I guess I hoped (in vain) that someone might have talked some sense into him.
Boy was I mistaken.
You’re the ones that hate Rail! You sold kiwi rail for a song because of your naiviety in business matters.
William, looks like you need a history lesson mate.
In 1993 National were in government. They sold the rail.
I don’t think this is entirely a decision made by the government, I think it has a lot to do with Kiwi’s loving their cars. Mind you better train services would certainly help, but I think rising petrol prices are going to be the real driver for a greater uptake of rail (for passenger services anyway). I don’t profess to know as much as you must Jarbury, so this is just my opinion. Given your background would you think the Nats have appropriate data to make transport decisions from? Can’t they be lobbied to change?
I know Prebs said he was gutted that he didn’t sell rail!
Personally I find the fact that Labour bought it back at an extremely overflated price, on election year, while behind in the polls in double digits a far more reprehensible deed.
It does lend to the theory that you did it to hamstring the future Government, especially with Kiwi Rail bleeding money.
I don’t think that have the appropriate experience to make transport decisions. Steven Joyce admitted that he hadn’t caught public transport for about 30 years before becoming Minister of Transport. He’s got Tony Friedlander of the road transport forum in his ear badgering him about all these roads that need upgrading so that road freight can be shifted around the country faster, I guess it’s no wonder he’s making the poor decisions that he is.
Labrat, the frustrating thing is that in Auckland public transport patronage is booming while road traffic is steady or declining. This trend has been going on for the last couple of years – so people are voting with their feet for public transport! However, the government seems determined to ignore these trends and wants more money to go into more roads, and less into public transport.
That seems completely illogical to me.
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